Help Request: Inconsistency of Travel Call

[bob jenkins]

I haven't noticed a particular difference, but I haven't been looking for it or logging it either.

When it's a travel, it's called. When it's a form of a (legal) jump stop, it isn't.

[Kansas Ref]

@ BR_the "legal jumpstop" consideration is not in effect here as there was no dribbling action that preceded the jump shot. In the case I'm describing the series of actions is: catch ball, make a small hop step [i.e., 'gather'], then shoot. Thanks for you input tho.

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

@ BR_the "legal jumpstop" consideration is not in effect here as there was no dribbling action that preceded the jump shot. In the case I'm describing the series of actions is: catch ball, make a small hop step [i.e., 'gather'], then shoot. Thanks for you input tho.

You cannot catch the ball then hop. I don't know what you mean by 'gather', but you can't gather the ball once it has already been caught.

What you are describing is a travel.

[Dad]

This really depends on what your definition of gathering is. You called a hop step gathering so I'm lost at what your point is.

[Kansas Ref]

@ DAD thanks for the input: Pls let me clarify--and hopefully not make it more obtuse---the small "hop step" motion taken after the ball has been caught is what I am talking about.

The "gather" term was the wording I used to describe the cumulative actions of: 1) receiving the pass, and then, 2) preparing to shoot the ball (which often includes: re-posturing the body for the shot, getting feet set, and ball re-positioned). However, for female players their "gather" also frequently includes a small hop-step just prior to releasing the shot--without a prior dribble action.

It is this small hop-step that is wrapped up into the cumulative action of shooting by female players that I am questioning---I see this hop-step ignored by officials (i.e., not called a travel--which ostensibly it is a travel). This is what has led me to believe that we officials are "enablers" of this action by female players.

I will ask some female ref colleagues if they concur with my observations.

[SNIPERBBB]

The perceived bias may be due to the fact that the girls do this move more than the boys. You see it hundreds of times during girls games but not as much in the boys and you get the funny look travels called.

You'll see this more called more at lower levels as they dont usually leave their feet before they catch the pass.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

@ BR_the "legal jumpstop" consideration is not in effect here as there was no dribbling action that preceded the jump shot. In the case I'm describing the series of actions is: catch ball, make a small hop step [i.e., 'gather'], then shoot. Thanks for you input tho.

You can "jump stop" while MOVING or dribbling. No one catches the ball with only one foot on the floor while not moving.

If the player catches the ball with both feet on the floor and then jumps and lands and then shoots -- yes, that's traveling. I see it called all the time. I didn't think that was what you were asking.

[deecee]

I call this a travel every time I see it. A player cannot catch the ball and then step into the shot. That's an unfair advantage and I don't care how wide open they are.

[JeffM]

On the men's side, I often see

Most often in Men's game: Right foot (pivot foot) on floor and left foot in air while catching the ball and stepping into the shot. Left foot lands. Right foot comes up and comes down. Shot. I rarely see this travel called at HS or college level even though the pivot foot came up and came down. I could start calling this and feel good about myself for calling the middle school games I would work by the rule book.

Most often in Women's game: Both feet on floor. Catch ball. Step forward with both feet, sometimes simultaneously in a "hop". Shot. Sometimes a travel is called.

[BigT]

In Utah both boys and girls do this. I called one or two but soon realized no one else called it and I was seen as picking on players.

If the defense is close and I hop to a new spot mere inches away then shoot I have disadvantaged myself and give the defense time to block the shot. Bunny hop hurts the player. I think it is not called because it didnt allow the offense and advantage. It is clearly a travel to have the ball, jump to a new spot and then shot. NO one calls it in this state. I was wondering the same thing and came up with the theory its really hurting the offense and gave no advantage so no one calls it..

Thanks for bring this up before I did.

Now if they are inside the 3 arc and jump behind it that I will call and dont get much grief.

Happy Easter everyone!

[deecee]

This bunny hope, or step in, is a big advantage to the shooter. It helps them put more arc under their shot and I guarantee you their shot will be worse without it.

[Kansas Ref]

For all of you accomplished officials, I sincerely thank you for your well-considered inputs/comments on my issue. Let me first say that it was re-assuring to see other officials had observed the same issue and I will say that going forward in my officiating vocation I will aim to implement the proper "travel call" when said action occurs.

For the record, I did speak with three female basketball officials--all who do it at the NF level--and they collectively said that they wished more officials would call this a "travel" on the girls/women's side instead of "kicking the rule". They said that girls do this "gathering" action in order to gain more force on their shot (which several of you had already postulated); however, the action is nevertheless a "travel". I then asked them "why" they had never /seldom called it a travel since they were also females who could ostensibly "identify" with other females? They responded by saying something to the effect of "wishing they had the temerity to make that call" despite the cultural bias towards kicking the rule.

Thanks a ton for all of you'alls comments.

[mickhickva]

I've seen this happen hundreds of times over the years ....its is liken to a "crow hop" that baseball outfielders use to create more momentum for a long throw after a catch or they field a batted ball hit to them

I've also seen it used by basketball player to start a dribble move after a catch ...this I always call traveling

However....
As for shooting ...... My mind's eye catches the movement but I rarely call it anymore (I will if they don't go thru with the shot --- and I'm not describing a jump stop but a catch and a movement-- while holding the ball after a catch...)

But I've not observed a gender difference

[Mregor]

Don't make this harder than it needs to be. Concentrate on the pivot and that will tell you if its a travel or not. Just like any other travel situation, you need to know whatth pivot foot is. If it is lifted and returned while in control of the ball, it's a travel. More times than not in the situation you are describing, the hop and the catch is one motion and the pivot isn't touching the floor when the catch/gather is made which makes it a legal move. That's all there is to it. Make that determination and move on to more important stuff.

When I was at Verne Harris camp years ago, this play was discussed. Verne's answer was he'd rather miss a travel call than call a good move a travel. If this is so prevalent in your area, what are the top officials calling. If it's prevalent, I'd say it's probably not a travel. Don't try to be the only Sherriff in town to male this call unless you are content with the games you are working.

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by mickhickva

I've also seen it used by basketball player to start a dribble move after a catch ...this I always call traveling

However....
As for shooting ...... My mind's eye catches the movement but I rarely call it anymore (I will if they don't go thru with the shot --- and I'm not describing a jump stop but a catch and a movement-- while holding the ball after a catch...)

But I've not observed a gender difference

*In contrast, I have mostly observed it due to gender--but ok, thanks for you input.