ND-SFA Last Basket

[deecee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The throw-in begins when the ball is at the disposal of a player. It is at the disposal of a player when it is available to a player after a goal and the official begins the count.

Nothing is said about the count not starting until he picks up the ball. What's to keep them from huddling and having a timeout if you're not going to start the count at some point?

You do it your way, everyone else will do it theirs. What they did was the expected way to handle the situation, and as said before the time was stopped, they were down and they gave the defense time to setup.

The team inbounding did not gain any advantage. We can play all the what ifs, but the adjudication was correct.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by deecee

You do it your way, everyone else will do it theirs. What they did was the expected way to handle the situation, and as said before the time was stopped, they were down and they gave the defense time to setup.

The team inbounding did not gain any advantage. We can play all the what ifs, but the adjudication was correct.

That's fine. That's what I'm asking. What is expected? Y'all are telling me there's no limit here? He can stand over the ball as long as he wants, and if he doesn't pick it up there is no count?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The throw-in begins when the ball is at the disposal of a player. It is at the disposal of a player when it is available to a player after a goal and the official begins the count.

Nothing is said about the count not starting until he picks up the ball. What's to keep them from huddling and having a timeout if you're not going to start the count at some point?

It wasn't available -- it was back in the crowd. Just cause the last guy went and got it doesn't mean the first guy was *required to*.

With a stopped clock, I'm doing the exact same thing. With a running clock, I'm stopping it and having someone retrieve the ball.

[just another ref]

If the ball was back in the crowd and not available, that changes everything. Perhaps someone could post the video. But if the ball is available, and nobody moves to pick it up, do we start the count at some point? I do.

[just another ref]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qerNHCMqL5s

Ball rolls out of sight behind the stanchion. Impossible to say whether it was ever "unavailable" or not.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If the ball was back in the crowd and not available, that changes everything. Perhaps someone could post the video. But if the ball is available, and nobody moves to pick it up, do we start the count at some point? I do.

Within reach? In high school games where the clock is running, I will start a count at some point. My expectations are different than these guys, though.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by just another ref

That's fine. That's what I'm asking. What is expected? Y'all are telling me there's no limit here? He can stand over the ball as long as he wants, and if he doesn't pick it up there is no count?

No they don't have an infinite amount of time but you must use common sense. In this case I may have blown my whistle and retrieved the ball once it rolled behind the stanchion.

if the ball was under the basket I may have given a few more seconds to see if anyone was going to take control before I started my count. But I wouldn't say, "OH shot made, ball is available for throw in." and then start my count. The clock is stopped, what's the rush?

[JRutledge]

Again, the clock was stopped. We cannot use a high school expectation for a college situation. This is a college game, not a high school game. I see many officials at that level be very deliberate with their counts when the clock is stopped. Stopping play has other consequences that are not needed when the clock is already stopped.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by just another ref

What's to keep them from huddling and having a timeout if you're not going to start the count at some point?

Is that what happened?

Most here have said that *in this situation* what they did was correct. You can even see the official direct someone to go get the ball. My guess is that had there been any further delay he would have started a (deliberate) count.

[Rich]

Officiating is part art and part science.

There's probably thousands of officials who get the science right. Those that can also get the art right rise to the top.

[BlueDevilRef]

Originally Posted by Rich

Officiating is part art and part science.

There's probably thousands of officials who get the science right. Those that can also get the art right rise to the top.

I'm out. I can't sing or draw.

[just another ref]

When I posted the original question, I thought the ball was lying in plain sight the whole time. It wasn't. But from the reactions of everyone involved, I don't think it was ever not available. With all that in mind, I would have started a count when the first guy stepped out of bounds. I see nothing in the wording that makes that wrong. I also don't see whether the clock is running or stopped has anything to do with this rule. And I also don't know what a "deliberate" count is.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

... I would have started a count when the first guy stepped out of bounds. I see nothing in the wording that makes that wrong. I also don't see whether the clock is running or stopped has anything to do with this rule. And I also don't know what a "deliberate" count is.

It has everything to do with running/managing a game. Nobody (supervisor, coaches) wants an OOO in this situation. College supervisors do not like "gotcha" type of officials. They want some common sense and "good for the game" officiating decisions. They want officials who would JUDGE the ball was not at anyone's disposal at the point you would have started your count.

[LRZ]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It has everything to do with running/managing a game. Nobody (supervisor, coaches) wants an OOO in this situation.

Nobody--including your partner(s).

[Adam]

I just watched the video. In a high school game, I'm not even going to have a 5 second count because the clock will be running with under 5 seconds. In any stopped clock game, I'm doing exactly what these guys did.

Starting a count early here isn't doing anyone any good.