ND-SFA Last Basket

[just another ref]

How does the wording compare in NCAA rules compared to NFHS with regard to ball at disposal and starting the throw-in count after the made basket? On the last play in this game the ball laid on the floor for a couple of seconds before being rolled out of bounds where it remained for another 7 or 8 seconds before being picked up and, I assume, the count started.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by just another ref

How does the wording compare in NCAA rules compared to NFHS with regard to ball at disposal and starting the throw-in count after the made basket? On the last play in this game the ball laid on the floor for a couple of seconds before being rolled out of bounds where it remained for another 7 or 8 seconds before being picked up and, I assume, the count started.

I thought about that, too. I don't think there is any difference between the rule sets (other than the clock stopping after the made basket), and from lots of other discussions on this forum, you give the non-scoring team a lot of latitude when it comes to retrieving the ball and starting your count. I was perfectly ok with the way the officials handled that.

Of course, in a federation game, if the ball rolls under a bleacher or is in some other way hard to get to, you should blow it dead so as not to disadvantage the non-scoring team. And that is assuming they did not have a time out to call (which they almost certainly would in this case if they did).

By the way, as a side note, I thought the clock (at least the one on TV) was changed from 1.4 to 1.5 seconds during that long pause after the basket. How did that happen if the officials did not stop play to address it? Could be just a sync issue with the game clock and the television clock. But I could not help but notice that.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by just another ref

How does the wording compare in NCAA rules compared to NFHS with regard to ball at disposal and starting the throw-in count after the made basket? On the last play in this game the ball laid on the floor for a couple of seconds before being rolled out of bounds where it remained for another 7 or 8 seconds before being picked up and, I assume, the count started.

It's one of those great circular rules and it's the same in NCAA and NFHS.

NCAAW 7-6-4: A throw-in and the throw-in count shall begin when the ball is at the disposal of the player entitled to the throw-in

NCAAW 4-12-1d: The ball is at the disposal of a player when it is available to a player after a goal and the official begins the throw-in count.

(The NCAAM's wording should be the same, though the rule #s might be slightly different)

So, the count begins when the ball is at the disposal...and the ball is at the disposal when it's available to a player and the count begins. I call it the chicken or the egg rule.

At any rate, common sense will play into a situation such as SFA/ND. SFA is getting its bearings after giving up an emotionally devastating FG. There was definitely a lot of time taken between the FG and a player retrieving the ball but that time also allowed ND to set up its defense. One could say the delay was more advantageous to ND since it was setting up its defense in front of its own bench while SFA's head coach was - at best - 66 feet away from the player making the throw-in.

[bob jenkins]

If the clock had been running, and it was the team that was ahead that didn't get to the ball, then start counting.

Or, if one player had the ball, but the others "weren't ready" -- then start the count.

In this game, in this situation, it was right (imo).

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

It's one of those great circular rules and it's the same in NCAA and NFHS.


(The NCAAM's wording should be the same, though the rule #s might be slightly different)

So, the count begins when the ball is at the disposal...and the ball is at the disposal when it's available to a player and the count begins. I call it the chicken or the egg rule.

At any rate, common sense will play into a situation such as SFA/ND. SFA is getting its bearings after giving up an emotionally devastating FG. There was definitely a lot of time taken between the FG and a player retrieving the ball but that time also allowed ND to set up its defense. One could say the delay was more advantageous to ND since it was setting up its defense in front of its own bench while SFA's head coach was - at best - 66 feet away from the player making the throw-in.

JMF - You nailed this one perfectly. Let's keep out of this one as long as we possible can. Great game management !!!!!

[Rich]

I'd love to see a video of the sequence before that. Specifically how the ND player ended up on the floor after engaging with #0 from SFA.

(Personally, I think the new L should've made a 5 second call from half court. )

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'd love to see a video of the sequence before that. Specifically how the ND player ended up on the floor after engaging with #0 from SFA.

(Personally, I think the new L should've made a 5 second call from half court. )

Ha, i caught that. lets see that one again...

[Multiple Sports]

Were all three zebras Irish Catholic celebrating the holiday ??? SFA had no chance !!!!!

[just another ref]

As I recall, with the ball on the floor out of bounds, one player stepped out of bounds, then motioned to another to step out and make the throw-in. I'm thinking I would have started the count when the first player stepped out.

[JRutledge]

There is a big difference between a clock running and a clock being totally stopped. All that delay did was help the defense set up. Without specific direction from the NCAA, I am OK with what was done.

Peace

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is a big difference between a clock running and a clock being totally stopped. All that delay did was help the defense set up. Without specific direction from the NCAA, I am OK with what was done.

Peace

Absolutely!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

As I recall, with the ball on the floor out of bounds, one player stepped out of bounds, then motioned to another to step out and make the throw-in. I'm thinking I would have started the count when the first player stepped out.

At that point the ball was still out of reach of anybody. It had rolled a long way into the crowd or whoever was sitting back there

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[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

At that point the ball was still out of reach of anybody. It head rolled a long way into the crowd or whoever was sitting back there

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Not sure about that, but I know he wasn't reaching for it. He was directing traffic for the other guy to step out and make the pass while he went back in to receive it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Not sure about that, but I know he wasn't reaching for it. He was directing traffic for the other guy to step out and make the pass while he went back in to receive it.

Seriously, why's he required to go get the ball?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Rich

Seriously, why's he required to go get the ball?

The throw-in begins when the ball is at the disposal of a player. It is at the disposal of a player when it is available to a player after a goal and the official begins the count.

Nothing is said about the count not starting until he picks up the ball. What's to keep them from huddling and having a timeout if you're not going to start the count at some point?