Illegal or not?? Please Help!!

[Jewls885]

Kentucky rules do not differ from NFHS rules.
When I challenged the use of electronic devices for communication, I was basically told that I was misinterpreting the rule and that the rule meant a coach couldn't communicate with a player on the floor (as in if the player were wearing an earpiece). Below is an email that was sent to Julian Tackett, KHSAA interpreter and his reply...

Dear Mr. Tackett,

I’m writing you today to respectfully ask for your help, as well as interpretation, regarding an incident that took place at our girl’s district basketball tournament. I made several attempts to reach you and did leave a voicemail for your assistant today, asking that someone return my call but did not get a reply.

I’m sure you are aware of the situation, with regards to the McLean County vs Ohio County girls’ basketball district game this past Monday. I spoke with Butch Cope this morning, who stated that McLean County’s coaches did nothing wrong concerning this situation and that the use of an illegal coach at the top of the bleachers, calling from his cell phone to a coach on their bench, while using bluetooth to communicate during the game, was an acceptable practice and that our team could have done the same. The McLean County coaches used these devices to gain a competitive advantage over our team during district play, allowing for plays to be called from the top of the bleachers from the birdseye view of an illegal coach, who continually called which plays to run, where to set screens, where our gaps were, and which of our players to double team. He had a birdseye view of the court, and was in a position that a coach on the bench or in the coaches box, could have NEVER had. This is a completely unethical practice and would not fall within acceptable NFHS Coaches Code of Ethics.

Mr. Cope stated that this behavior and unethical practice was acceptable since a rule was passed last year that would allow the use of electronic equipment. I, however, understand/interpret this rule as allowing the use of tablets to gather and record statistical information and that the uses of such devices were to be utilized solely for such purpose.
I also understand/interpret KHSAA bylaw 15 to be understood as a team or staff member may not use any equipment that would give one team a competitive advantage over the other during a game, which was the exact conclusion of their use of these devices.

KHSAA bylaw 15 reads as follows:
Sec 2) ILLEGAL EQUIPMENT/VIDEOTAPING
a) It shall be considered a violation of this rule if any school or school representative(s) uses or allows the use of illegal equipment which gains a competitive advantage in the contest and which is expressly prohibited by the rules adopted for that sport.

I am respectfully asking for your help regarding this matter. Please do not excuse the actions of unethical coaches and send the wrong message to these young ladies. Allowing advancement of one team over the other when neither is at fault would be completely unjust. These girls work hard all season and they do so with anticipation of tournament competition.
These coaches not only took from our girls, but theirs as well. Would the outcome of the game been any different had the unethical coaches not used the devices? Nobody could possibly know this now. Is it fair that their girls be punished for something they possibly didn’t know anything about? No!
Now with that being said, should our girls be punished because they were put at a competitive disadvantage, which possibly cost them advancement in the tournament? No!
In my opinion, the fair thing to do in this case is to have the two teams to play again, without the use of unethical or illegal equipment. Another solution would be to allow Ohio County to advance to regional play. I would appreciate hearing from you regarding this matter either by phone or email.


Sincerely,
*******

Mr. Tackett's reply......

From: Tackett, Julian [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 10:40 AM
To: *****
Subject: Re: McLean County vs Ohio County

Thank you for your note. Mr. Cope has given you the proper interpretation in that what was done is not illegal per the playing rules or the KHSAA rules. At this point, Bylaw 15 is irrelevant as it only applies to illegal equipment. Per the playing rules, this equipment was not illegal, so that provision does not apply.

As for the playing rules, there continues to be a prohibition against communicating with players electronically, but not among coaches. This situation, and three others like it that have occurred this year in various states, will place this issue on the agenda for the national rules committee to consider whether or not there should be further restrictions. And while what was done (communication to the bench from somewhere else) may not be illegal this year, that answer could very well change for the coming years. And if such does not change, then all schools should be notified and allowed to have the same opportunities. It is important that the rules committee address this situation for a variety of reasons. This type of communication is perfectly permissible in many sports (i.e. football), but, in reality, has never been addressed for basketball as it wasn't necessary to address when no communication devices were permitted. That clarity will help all of us in the future.

Because nothing against any playing rules was done, there is obviously no needed remedy of replaying contests, etc.

I appreciate the professional tone of your inquiry and when the rules committee makes any decisions about future playing rules, we will notify all of our member schools so that they can prepare for the coming seasons.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by Jewls885

Mr. Tackett's reply......

From: Tackett, Julian [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, February 25, 2016 10:40 AM
To: *****
Subject: Re: McLean County vs Ohio County

Thank you for your note. Mr. Cope has given you the proper interpretation in that what was done is not illegal per the playing rules or the KHSAA rules. At this point, Bylaw 15 is irrelevant as it only applies to illegal equipment. Per the playing rules, this equipment was not illegal, so that provision does not apply.

As for the playing rules, there continues to be a prohibition against communicating with players electronically, but not among coaches. This situation, and three others like it that have occurred this year in various states, will place this issue on the agenda for the national rules committee to consider whether or not there should be further restrictions. And while what was done (communication to the bench from somewhere else) may not be illegal this year, that answer could very well change for the coming years. And if such does not change, then all schools should be notified and allowed to have the same opportunities. It is important that the rules committee address this situation for a variety of reasons. This type of communication is perfectly permissible in many sports (i.e. football), but, in reality, has never been addressed for basketball as it wasn't necessary to address when no communication devices were permitted. That clarity will help all of us in the future.

Because nothing against any playing rules was done, there is obviously no needed remedy of replaying contests, etc.

I appreciate the professional tone of your inquiry and when the rules committee makes any decisions about future playing rules, we will notify all of our member schools so that they can prepare for the coming seasons.

If what he's saying were true, then why does Rule 10-1-3 say that using "any electronic communication device" were a technical foul, and goes on to say that "electronic equipment for voice communication with players on the court" was also a technical foul? Was the NFHS just being redundant?

[Jewls885]

I agree and have argued, cited rules, bylaws and still get told that I am misinterpreting this and that what they did was legal!! Can anybody help me with this??

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Jewls885

I agree and have argued, cited rules, bylaws and still get told that I am misinterpreting this and that what they did was legal!! Can anybody help me with this??

Not much that can be done when your appointed rules interpreter gets it wrong.

[Jewls885]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not much that can be done when your appointed rules interpreter gets it wrong.

Yeah, wrong or right, he gets the last say I guess.
On a side note though, the referees from the next game are the ones who caught it. So I guess when the refs "reported" it to KHSAA, it's easy to think they must have been doing something illegal....I guess maybe the officials weren't sure either....not to mention when the head coach and assistant coach got fired as soon as they got off the bus back at their school. So I guess this means now that all teams everywhere going to regional and state tournaments can now do this too. Basketball has now become like nascar, every team can have a "spotter".....

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by Jewls885

Basketball has now become like nascar, every team can have a "spotter".....

Football, of course, has allowed "spotters" in the pressbox for as long as I can remember, although football is very different due to size of the playing field and number of players participating at once.

Methinks a clarification or "editorial change" will be forthcoming from the NFHS on this for next season... personally, I think this type of thing shouldn't be allowed in basketball, but if NFHS decides to allow this type of communication that's fine too... one less AC on the bench to potentially have a problem with.

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by jTheUmp

Football, of course, has allowed "spotters" in the pressbox for as long as I can remember, although football is very different due to size of the playing field and number of players participating at once.

Methinks a clarification or "editorial change" will be forthcoming from the NFHS on this for next season... personally, I think this type of thing shouldn't be allowed in basketball, but if NFHS decides to allow this type of communication that's fine too... one less AC on the bench to potentially have a problem with.

Gotta be honest, their isn't that much happening on the floor during a boys basketball game when this would matter... By the time the "spotter" realizes what's happen - its too late. A good player doesn't care about defense and creates his own gaps.
Do we really want to have a separate set of rules for girls and boys... cause this is a non-issue in boys basketball?
If this guy was sitting behind the other teams bench doing this - I'd have a problem... There is no such thing as a birds-eye view that is more helpful than being down on the floor in basketball... That's why the idiots up there never get calls correct!

[cretin870]

reading mr tacket email that was posted didn't he say legal among coaches wouldn't think a fired coach could be labeled a coach for the team he was fired from

[deecee]

I don't see how this gives a team an unfair advantage. It's dealing with the same information in the game and I'm guessing you are from the losing school. You could have done this as well but in reality it just appears that the losing team's coach got out coached.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

If what he's saying were true, then why does Rule 10-1-3 say that using "any electronic communication device" were a technical foul, and goes on to say that "electronic equipment for voice communication with players on the court" was also a technical foul? Was the NFHS just being redundant?

It is legal to do what they did under nfhs rules. You can't communicate with players on the court and you can't use it to review a decision of the officials. For coaching purpose you can do it.

[Jewls885]

But they did use it to communicate with players on the floor.

[frezer11]

Man, something seems fishy here, doesn't seem to pass the eye test. Although it would look weird, I suppose it would now be legal for a coaching staff to take one of the school's football headsets and do the same thing then? Gonna have to think more on this one, I feel like there is something we're missing here.

[Jewls885]

They did however tell us that in April, the wording would be changed so this wasn't allowed. As far as I'm concerned, that's how it already reads!

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Jewls885

They did however tell us that in April, the wording would be changed so this wasn't allowed. As far as I'm concerned, that's how it already reads!

I don't recall hearing anything about it. The rule is clear that you can't use electronic communication device TO COMMUNICATE WITH Players or to review a decision of the officials. And the case play is nearly identical. They would have to change both. As long as your not putting an earpiece on a player or using it to say "ref video shows you made wrong call"..then I'm not aware of anything that prevents it.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Jewls885

But they did use it to communicate with players on the floor.

You can relay things from up top to the bench. You can't have a kid with a device on the floor. See 10.1.3a. It is the same type of play.