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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 28, 2016, 05:29pm
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But they did use it to communicate with players on the floor.
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Old Sun Feb 28, 2016, 05:33pm
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Man, something seems fishy here, doesn't seem to pass the eye test. Although it would look weird, I suppose it would now be legal for a coaching staff to take one of the school's football headsets and do the same thing then? Gonna have to think more on this one, I feel like there is something we're missing here.
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Old Sun Feb 28, 2016, 05:42pm
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They did however tell us that in April, the wording would be changed so this wasn't allowed. As far as I'm concerned, that's how it already reads!
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Old Sun Feb 28, 2016, 05:49pm
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Originally Posted by Jewls885 View Post
They did however tell us that in April, the wording would be changed so this wasn't allowed. As far as I'm concerned, that's how it already reads!
I don't recall hearing anything about it. The rule is clear that you can't use electronic communication device TO COMMUNICATE WITH Players or to review a decision of the officials. And the case play is nearly identical. They would have to change both. As long as your not putting an earpiece on a player or using it to say "ref video shows you made wrong call"..then I'm not aware of anything that prevents it.
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Old Sun Feb 28, 2016, 05:58pm
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Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
I don't recall hearing anything about it. The rule is clear that you can't use electronic communication device TO COMMUNICATE WITH Players or to review a decision of the officials. And the case play is nearly identical. They would have to change both. As long as your not putting an earpiece on a player or using it to say "ref video shows you made wrong call"..then I'm not aware of anything that prevents it.
I think he meant as in wording using wireless communication/cell phones. The current rule is electronic devices for coaching on the bench and for statistical data. Not to let a fired coach continue to coach from the top.
Is there not a rule about where coaches have to be, as in on the bench or coaching box?
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Old Sun Feb 28, 2016, 06:03pm
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There are only 3 teams in this district. After the head coach was fired, the boys basketball head coach coached the girls in the championship game, which they won.
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Old Sun Feb 28, 2016, 06:01pm
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Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
I don't recall hearing anything about it. The rule is clear that you can't use electronic communication device TO COMMUNICATE WITH Players or to review a decision of the officials. And the case play is nearly identical. They would have to change both. As long as your not putting an earpiece on a player or using it to say "ref video shows you made wrong call"..then I'm not aware of anything that prevents it.
IMO, the wording in 10-1-3 is not very clear. While I'm sure what you said is their intent, it could have been worded a hell of a lot more clear. I believe it can be read like they are saying using electronic communication devices... for any purpose... is illegal, and goes on to give communicating with players on the court, and reviewing officials decisions, as particular examples only.
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Old Sun Feb 28, 2016, 06:06pm
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Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
IMO, the wording in 10-1-3 is not very clear. While I'm sure what you said is their intent, it could have been worded a hell of a lot more clear. I believe it can be read like they are saying using electronic communication devices... for any purpose... is illegal, and goes on to give communicating with players on the court, and reviewing officials decisions, as particular examples only.
Yeah, it's kind worded loosely and can be interpreted a couple of different ways. I think that's why they said the wording would be changed in April

Last edited by Jewls885; Sun Feb 28, 2016 at 06:08pm. Reason: Add
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Old Sun Feb 28, 2016, 06:07pm
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Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
IMO, the wording in 10-1-3 is not very clear. While I'm sure what you said is their intent, it could have been worded a hell of a lot more clear. I believe it can be read like they are saying using electronic communication devices... for any purpose... is illegal, and goes on to give communicating with players on the court, and reviewing officials decisions, as particular examples only.
It's pretty clear. You can't use electronic devices to communicate w players on court or to review officials' decisions. That's the plain meaning of the words used. It doesn't say "for any purpose."
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Old Sun Feb 28, 2016, 06:14pm
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Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
It's pretty clear. You can't use electronic devices to communicate w players on court or to review officials' decisions. That's the plain meaning of the words used. It doesn't say "for any purpose."
Quote:
Use a megaphone or any electronic communication device, or electronic equipment for voice communication with players on the court, or use electronic audio and/or video devices to review a decision of the contest officials


I'm not an expert on the English language, written or spoken, but when I see a comma used I believe it's to separate parts of the sentence. For example, "he hit the ball, dropped the bat, and ran to first base." Those are three different actions being taken, meaning the "dropped the bat" part is not an extension of the "he hit the ball" part.

That is why I believe either the interpretation is wrong, or the wording needs to be fixed.
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Old Sun Feb 28, 2016, 06:22pm
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I appreciate and thank everyone for their input on this. It's just been a very frustrating situation and you hate to see anything taken away from either group of girls because of unethical actions of adults. I truly believe you will be seeing changes in the next rule book.
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Old Sun Feb 28, 2016, 06:27pm
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Originally Posted by Jewls885 View Post
I appreciate and thank everyone for their input on this. It's just been a very frustrating situation and you hate to see anything taken away from either group of girls because of unethical actions of adults. I truly believe you will be seeing changes in the next rule book.
I wouldn't go so far as to say the one team was cheating. Clearly the state believes everything was within the rules. Just because one team didn't know the rule doesn't mean the other team can't take advantage of it.

If my team runs an OOB play after a made basket, where the inbounder passes it along the baseline to another teammate that's also out of bounds, is what I did cheating because the other team didn't know that was legal? Of course not.

So while I may be on your side as for the legality of the play in the OP (I say "may" because I'm not yet convinced either way, although I tend to go with BigCat), I don't agree the other team cheated.
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Old Sun Feb 28, 2016, 06:36pm
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Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
I wouldn't go so far as to say the one team was cheating. Clearly the state believes everything was within the rules. Just because one team didn't know the rule doesn't mean the other team can't take advantage of it.

If my team runs an OOB play after a made basket, where the inbounder passes it along the baseline to another teammate that's also out of bounds, is what I did cheating because the other team didn't know that was legal? Of course not.

So while I may be on your side as for the legality of the play in the OP (I say "may" because I'm not yet convinced either way, although I tend to go with BigCat), I don't agree the other team cheated.
You're right and I guess I shouldn't have used the word "cheated" since "technically" there is nothing saying they couldn't do what they did, instead, there was only confusion from NFHS rules and KHSAA interpretation
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Old Mon Feb 29, 2016, 01:01am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jewls885 View Post
I appreciate and thank everyone for their input on this. It's just been a very frustrating situation and you hate to see anything taken away from either group of girls because of unethical actions of adults. I truly believe you will be seeing changes in the next rule book.
What's unethical about this?
Seems you're more hung up on him being fired... for what reason i don't know or care - that's the districts issue.
Do we really expect that a fired husband/coach won't help his wife in any way possible to win!?
If the rules don't disallow it, why is it wrong?
If he was sitting behind the bench and giving her information, would this be wrong or none of our business?
BTW: When a parent is in the stands coaching their kid - do we consider this cheating?
Also, if they're still winning - maybe they're just better!
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Old Mon Feb 29, 2016, 03:17am
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Originally Posted by Refhoop View Post
What's unethical about this?
Seems you're more hung up on him being fired... for what reason i don't know or care - that's the districts issue.
Do we really expect that a fired husband/coach won't help his wife in any way possible to win!?
If the rules don't disallow it, why is it wrong?
If he was sitting behind the bench and giving her information, would this be wrong or none of our business?
BTW: When a parent is in the stands coaching their kid - do we consider this cheating?
Also, if they're still winning - maybe they're just better!
Ouch! Listen, I personally could care less why the jerk was fired from this school a month prior or why he was fired from the one before, and had he been behind the bench, he would have had the same viewpoint as other coaches. My concern was for the girls. How was this suppose to be viewed when the referees that night said it was illegal and reported it as such to KHSAA or when the coaches (wife and assistant) got fired that very night for doing what they did? I'm not the one who fired them, hell, I didn't even know what happened until the next night! I'm not the one who turned them in, it was the officials and THEIR OWN school administration who did this, so obviously they must have deemed it unethical/illegal in their eyes or at least questioned it. I was only asking for clarification since there seems to be so many mixed views. I understand that this is perfectly legal in football and apparently basketball now too, but with regards to other sports such as baseball, softball, track and field, soccer and even golf, it states no wireless communication, some specifically stating the use of cell phones, so why is it such a reach that it might have been wrong in basketball. To my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure you will, of the position of a coach in basketball is they must be either in the coaching box or on the bench. With that being said, the reasoning is so that each coach has the same viewpoint of the court and same competitive advantage.

NFHS Basketball Interpretations
Situation 1
May electronic devices be used in dead ball situations, such as free throws and throw-ins to communicate with players officially in the game?

RULING: No, the coaching staff may not use an electronic device to communicate with the players on the playing court at any time. They may use an electronic device to coach the players on the bench at any time.

The confusion seems to lie in whether or not they are talking about the player using an earpiece. My argument on this is... If allowable for a coach to use said electronic device with players on the bench, they must not be talking of an earpiece, because why the hell would you need an earpiece to communicate with a player that was sitting right next to you?? I just think how it's written, since it doesn't specifically say earpiece, cellphone, tablet...all of which could be construed as "wireless communication" and "electronic devices," is a little confusing and leaves it wide open for argument between NFHS and KHSAA writings, which also state that it may not be used to gain a competitive advantage over an opposing team in any contest. Would not doing what they did have changed the outcome of the game? Who knows? Although I will add that we handed them a loss at our last meeting and after the husband was let go, they lost every game (4 or 5) up until
the game with us, which was at the district tournament. Again, who knows what the outcome would have been, but that's besides the point. The point is, I was just asking for clarification on rules and interpretations that could have been better written to avoid the confusion. I guess we will all know in April, when as we were told, the wording would probably be changed.

Last edited by Jewls885; Mon Feb 29, 2016 at 04:19am. Reason: Add
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