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Old Thu Feb 25, 2016, 12:14am
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Players complaining to me more than other officials

Hi everyone, new to the forum - wish I'd found it earlier!

A general question. I've been officiating collegiate intramural basketball for six years. I recently changed schools and have noticed that players are not only talking back more often, but they are talking back *to me* more than to any of the other officials. I've issued six unsportsmanlike techs in the last eight games. My crewmates have not issued any.

I generally get good reviews from observers and take officiating seriously. However, I'm concerned that there might be something I am doing to draw the talking back from players. It may be relevant that my demeanor is usually the most "intense" on my crew - in the sense that I verbalize my calls most loudly, my mechanics are the most rigid, etc.

Has anyone else ever experienced a situation similar to this? Even if not, any advice about how I can help relieve some of the talking back? I know this isn't a job for the thin-skinned, but it has started to become grating.

Thanks in advance for your help!
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Old Thu Feb 25, 2016, 12:29am
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Originally Posted by njbell89 View Post
Hi everyone, new to the forum - wish I'd found it earlier!

A general question. I've been officiating collegiate intramural basketball for six years. I recently changed schools and have noticed that players are not only talking back more often, but they are talking back *to me* more than to any of the other officials. I've issued six unsportsmanlike techs in the last eight games. My crewmates have not issued any.

I generally get good reviews from observers and take officiating seriously. However, I'm concerned that there might be something I am doing to draw the talking back from players. It may be relevant that my demeanor is usually the most "intense" on my crew - in the sense that I verbalize my calls most loudly, my mechanics are the most rigid, etc.

Has anyone else ever experienced a situation similar to this? Even if not, any advice about how I can help relieve some of the talking back? I know this isn't a job for the thin-skinned, but it has started to become grating.

Thanks in advance for your help!
Welcome to college intramural basketball.

That's exactly where I started my officiating career. I gave out a ton of technical fouls because the players were exactly as you say they are.

I wouldn't worry too much about it. As long as you're getting good feedback from the people who matter, that's all that counts. Continue to penalize unsportsmanlike behavior.
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Old Thu Feb 25, 2016, 12:39am
AremRed
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Stop making eye contact with the players. When you do it gives them an opening to engage with you.
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Old Thu Feb 25, 2016, 08:40am
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Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Stop making eye contact with the players. When you do it gives them an opening to engage with you.
Fixed that for you. If that's their excuse to engage unsportingly, it's a pretty poor excuse IMO.

Keep whacking them. They'll either figure it out or keep giving the other team 2 & the ball. Don't worry about it, the guys that do this crap are usually hacks who think they are Steph Curry.
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Old Thu Feb 25, 2016, 08:54am
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Originally Posted by njbell89 View Post
I generally get good reviews from observers and take officiating seriously.
I'd ask the observers what they see.

As a general statement, the demeanor of the official needs to match the "seriousness" with which the participants take the game. If there's a mis-match, then problems can occur -- and maybe the environment at the new school is different from the environment at the old school.
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Old Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:03am
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There are observers for college intramural games? These games are a starting point/stepping stone for doing real games that matter?

Wow!!!!!!!! You learn something new every day. It's amazing how different things are in different parts of the country.

Around here, intramurals are done by other college students. Some guys that want to get into reffing might do some rec league or junior high volunteer type games. There are no observers at ANY of these events.
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Old Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:24am
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Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers View Post
Fixed that for you. If that's their excuse to engage unsportingly, it's a pretty poor excuse IMO.
Arem's suggestion is just one of many valid conflict avoidance tactics. Here's another one, at least as it pertains to the coaches: don't get unwittingly sucked into the coach's vortex. Too many do so by reporting too close to the table, and then waltzing inconveniently over right in front of the coach as trail.
Yeah, communication is important, I get that. But sometimes we ourselves put outselves in a position where we're ripe pickin's for a coaches complaining/comments because of our proximity to him/her. Staying a little farther away for that first free throw or for the next play at least makes him exercise the effort to initiate the communication. Some of the regretful communication coaches direct our way is avoidable if we just utilize a conflict avoidance tactic like staying away more. Doesn't address everything or every situation, but some.
As for the players, making the call and then getting out of there and not initiating communication with them by lingering right there in their proximity is a convenient aversion tool to use from time to time.
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Old Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:44am
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Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
Arem's suggestion is just one of many valid conflict avoidance tactics. Here's another one, at least as it pertains to the coaches: don't get unwittingly sucked into the coach's vortex. Too many do so by reporting too close to the table, and then waltzing inconveniently over right in front of the coach as trail.
Yeah, communication is important, I get that. But sometimes we ourselves put outselves in a position where we're ripe pickin's for a coaches complaining/comments because of our proximity to him/her. Staying a little farther away for that first free throw or for the next play at least makes him exercise the effort to initiate the communication. Some of the regretful communication coaches direct our way is avoidable if we just utilize a conflict avoidance tactic like staying away more. Doesn't address everything or every situation, but some.
As for the players, making the call and then getting out of there and not initiating communication with them by lingering right there in their proximity is a convenient aversion tool to use from time to time.
I don't change anything about my positioning, but I will make myself seem a bit more "focused" on other things if a coach starts with something other than a question.
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Old Thu Feb 25, 2016, 10:56am
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Originally Posted by SD Referee View Post
There are observers for college intramural games? These games are a starting point/stepping stone for doing real games that matter?

Wow!!!!!!!! You learn something new every day. It's amazing how different things are in different parts of the country.

Around here, intramurals are done by other college students. Some guys that want to get into reffing might do some rec league or junior high volunteer type games. There are no observers at ANY of these events.
This is where I got my start too. Makes high schoolers super easy to deal with. If you can deal with frat boys, a bunch of 16-17 year olds are tame by comparison.

We had evaluators, who were other more experienced officials in the student officiating program. They were a mixed bag--some were clearly just there for beer money, while others took it seriously and a few actually did high school ball while still in college.

Keep whacking 'em. It's those people who have to change, not you.
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Old Thu Feb 25, 2016, 01:45pm
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I also worked as an IM official as a student, and I think having students officiate the games creates an interesting dynamic. I suspect part of the issue you are facing is that you are new at this school. I dealt with the same stuff you described as a new official in the IM program when I was in college. I attribute the criticism I got from players to two (maybe 3) issues:

1. I was new and they wanted to test my limits.
2. They weren't used to someone that would call a game like I did.
3. I'm not committing to this 100%, but maybe I was wrong on occasion.

Regarding the first point, if the players know the other guys (on or off the court) their lack of complaining to them may be reflective of that relationship. They complain to the person they don't know. They may also know that the other guys won't tolerate it, so they complain to you thinking you won't give them a T because you're the new guy. They'll learn this isn't true if you consistently aware them Ts when they earn them.

Concerning the second point, I think you were on the right track regarding your observation about your "intense" demeanor. I came into IM officiating with some experience calling games outside of the IM program (middle school and some JV), and thus I took the game more seriously than many other officials. I worked on my mechanics and positioning, called violations and fouls that others missed, managed the game and kept the players in line. Most IM players were not accustomed to that level of officiating. I worked with other officials that wouldn't blow their whistle to save their own life, wouldn't call a T without consulting a supervisor and didn't seem to understand their role in the game. If the players pick up on that degree of dichotomy between you and other officials, they will be critical of you (you're the guy that stands out). It was a beautiful day when I finally found another IM official during my junior year that called games in a similar manner. We ended up getting assigned to most of the high quality frat/sorority games, and the players realized neither of us would put up with poor behavior, but also that there wasn't any need to whine because we were going to put forth maximum effort and did a good job based on the feedback we received.

I'm not sure which issue you're facing, but the best recommendation I can give is to keep doing the best you can and be consistent with handling complaining players. If the behavior warrants a T, award the player a T. If a player comes to you in a respectful manner and is complaining about something, listen to his/her complaints and acknowledge.
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Old Thu Feb 25, 2016, 11:28pm
AremRed
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Originally Posted by UNIgiantslayers View Post
Fixed that for you.
No you didn't. Making eye contact with an angry person is a easy way to allow them to engage with you. I'm not saying don't take care of business when needed but it's amazing what you can avoid by simply not making eye contact.
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Old Fri Feb 26, 2016, 12:19am
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Avoiding eye contact makes an official look umsure...or scared.
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Old Fri Feb 26, 2016, 07:31am
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I'll avoid eye contact with a coach if I don't want to engage him. However when I'm talking to players I will look directly in their eyes when I address them.

I never avoid eye contact with players. I deal with players and coaches differently.

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Last edited by Raymond; Fri Feb 26, 2016 at 07:33am.
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Old Fri Feb 26, 2016, 08:33am
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I just don't do this. I do figure that not engaging if there's no question is always an option.

I counted a basket last night and a coach started giving me a travel signal from the box. I didn't bother not giving him eye contact -- but I did report the foul and move on without saying anything even though he really wanted me to engage.

Thing is - I know what AremRed is saying and don't entire disagree when officials are experienced and can do this in a way that doesn't make it obvious he's avoiding the coach. Newer officials need to work on making eye contact and having confidence in their calls, so I'm not sure how good the advice is for someone who has trouble keeping eye contact on even routine fouls.
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Old Fri Feb 26, 2016, 08:36am
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My goal isn't to avoid being engaged. If they want to engage me in an appropriate manner, I have no problem with that. Often times, a player won't understand what I saw and will approach me after I make eye contact and ask what they did wrong. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If they can't be an adult and talk to me in a civil manner, that's on them (much like the T they will earn). I'm not interested in acting sheepish after a call and avoiding eye contact because I'm confident in my calls and what I see. We're not there to tip toe around their feelings or their inability to act like adults.
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