Bad Timing Of Events

[River Ref]

Had a leg injury and so was able to sit and watch my crew with a sub for me. C is coming down table-side and calls a travel on B1. B coach leaps up with words to the effect of that's a block and he's crazy. All at the same instant T was running up to C to say that his look clearly showed a block on A1. The call was over-turned,but the T had already been given. Coach is usually the quiet type,but just a bad chain of events for him I guess.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by River Ref

Had a leg injury and so was able to sit and watch my crew with a sub for me. C is coming down table-side and calls a travel on B1. B coach leaps up with words to the effect of that's a block and he's crazy. All at the same instant T was running up to C to say that his look clearly showed a block on A1. The call was over-turned,but the T had already been given. Coach is usually the quiet type,but just a bad chain of events for him I guess.

Am I correctly reading this to say that the T came in and overruled a travel call to change it to a block???? If they double whistled, and the T had definite knowledge that the block happened first OK, but that is the ONLY way that this should fly. If this is your crew, I might be looking for a new member after that.

[River Ref]

Yes,I failed to mention the 2 whistles.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by River Ref

Yes,I failed to mention the 2 whistles.

Then that is fine.

Both officials saw an infraction and blew the whistle for the one they saw. The first to have actually occurred is what should be called. A discussion is the only way that happens. And, it isn't one official overruling another, neither was saying that the other infraction didn't occur.

[BryanV21]

I think I read that a tech was given to the coach. If so... Good. Being right does not excuse anybody from being an ass.

Unless the word "you're" is followed up with "a great official" then chances are he's being t'd up.

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[Raymond]

This is why coaches need to quit with these undisciplined reactions to plays and calls.

[Nevadaref]

The problem is that the official signaled for a travel instead of recognizing his partner's whistle first. If he looks and sees his partner with a fist up, he knows that they need to talk before announcing a call. That would prevent the row with the coach. Simple mechanics and partner awareness.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If he looks and sees his partner with a fist up, he knows that they need to talk before announcing a call ... Simple mechanics and partner awareness.

Fist and open hand. Let's talk. Basketball Officiating 101.

[Rich]

And a good coach would see the fist vs. open hand.

Frankly, this should all be settled with a quick, "the travel happened first" or "the foul caused the travel." If the coach wants to continue after that, it's on him.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by frezer11

Am I correctly reading this to say that the T came in and overruled a travel call to change it to a block???? If they double whistled, and the T had definite knowledge that the block happened first OK, but that is the ONLY way that this should fly. If this is your crew, I might be looking for a new member after that.

Well said!

Can't say I have ever seen an official change a travel to a block UNLESS there was a double whistle.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by River Ref

Yes,I failed to mention the 2 whistles.

I should have read the entire thread first!

With the 2 whistles, it's ok to overturn the call if there is direct knowledge that the block caused the travel.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by Rich

And a good coach would see the fist vs. open hand.

I dunno -- I'm not sure we necessarily expect a good coach to see both signals and interpret them if the official he's looking at has an open hand and immediately signals travel I don't know it is reasonable to expect the coach to be looking around for the other officials. (Not, of course, that it excuses the coach's behavior.)

This also raises a pet peeve: why does it seem that no TV announcers seem to know the fist/open distinction. They get paid (a lot!) to watch basketball games and it seems routine that they speculate about a call without even noticing the signal (i.e., "he mus be calling a travel" with a fist in the air).

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The problem is that the official signaled for a travel instead of recognizing his partner's whistle first. If he looks and sees his partner with a fist up, he knows that they need to talk before announcing a call. That would prevent the new with the coach. Simple mechanics and partner awareness.

Great point!!!!!

I am deliberately slow in everything I do trying to avoid circumstances like that.

[deecee]

We normally pregame if we have a double whistle and one is a violation versus a foul, we go with the violation. The only exception is if the foul caused the violation.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The problem is that the official signaled for a travel instead of recognizing his partner's whistle first. If he looks and sees his partner with a fist up, he knows that they need to talk before announcing a call. That would prevent the new with the coach. Simple mechanics and partner awareness.

Has no one other than me ever not heard a partner's whistle when they make a call?