What a night

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

Guys & Gals, let's theorize for a moment on the potentials in this type of situation - this could be fun!

HC has been warned, then more than one assistant subsequently stands and yells at the officials about a call. You can clearly identify which assistants stood.

By rule, how are you going to handle this?

I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at here, but I think I've got the basic gist.

By rule, you call a direct technical on each assistant that stood and yelled at the officials. The HC is charged with an indirect T for each of these technicals. If the number of TFs on the Assistants is 3 or more, then the HC is going to be ejected. 2 FTs for each TF on an assistant. Then the ball to the other team at the division line opposite the table.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at here, but I think I've got the basic gist.

By rule, you call a direct technical on each assistant that stood and yelled at the officials. The HC is charged with an indirect T for each of these technicals. If the number of TFs on the Assistants is 3 or more, then the HC is going to be ejected. 2 FTs for each TF on an assistant. Then the ball to the other team at the division line opposite the table.

Yep, that's exactly what I was getting at......

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at here, but I think I've got the basic gist.

By rule, you call a direct technical on each assistant that stood and yelled at the officials. The HC is charged with an indirect T for each of these technicals. If the number of TFs on the Assistants is 3 or more, then the HC is going to be ejected. 2 FTs for each TF on an assistant. Then the ball to the other team at the division line opposite the table.

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

Yep, that's exactly what I was getting at......

Take a look at 10.4.4B and see if you change your minds.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

What a night.

I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself.

SCalScoreKeeper's thread title haunted me.

Guess what the link is and enjoy.

https://youtu.be/t3RqEl9s6NI

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Yeah-it was amusing,and I had a club volleyball tournament to officiate the next morning too lol

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Adam

Take a look at 10.4.4B and see if you change your minds.

Maybe.

If, as the casebook says, they're all doing the same thing at the same time in reaction to the same thing, then I'd assess a single bench technical which is also charged indirect to the HC. If, however, one ASSistant is yelling about a traveling call, and another ASSistant is at the same time yelling about a foul he thinks should have been called, I'm whacking them both individually, and charging 2 indirects to the HC.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Adam

Take a look at 10.4.4B and see if you change your minds.

Wrong rule - try 10.4.1.A

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Adam

Take a look at 10.4.4B and see if you change your minds.

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

Wrong rule - try 10.4.1.A

I think the point Adam is trying to make that is brought up in 10.4.4.B is the idea of "similar multiple infractions occuring at the same time." That's why I say if all 4 ASSistants are booing the same call at the same time, then I'll throw a single bench technical. But if they're all whining about different things at the same time, I'll whack them each individually and let the coach have an early shower.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I think the point Adam is trying to make that is brought up in 10.4.4.B is the idea of "similar multiple infractions occuring at the same time." That's why I say if all 4 ASSistants are booing the same call at the same time, then I'll throw a single bench technical. But if they're all whining about different things at the same time, I'll whack them each individually and let the coach have an early shower.

Understood, and I don't necessarily disagree, but it's not real clear. Personally I don't believe in piling on unnecessarily and a single indirect to the HC would be OK, but is that supported by rule?

10-4-4 specifically applies only to when standing at the team bench is permitted, while 10-4-1 addresses unsporting conduct. Casebook 10.4.1.A specifically says: "In addition to charging a technical to the individuals in all cases, the technical foul is also charged indirectly to the head coach......."

So if all they do is stand, then 10.4.4.B would apply and you go with a single bench technical and indirect to the HC, though even that might be questionable per 10-4-1-e, but I wouldn't go there.

But if they gesture, comment or commit any other unsporting act listed in 10.4.1, then 10.4.1.A would apply, they all get T's, and arguably the HC could be charged with an indirect for each, but the rule/case doesn't specifically address multiple similar unsportsmanlike acts committed at the same time.

There are supporting arguments both ways, i.e penalties under 10-4-5 when team members leave the bench during a fight, but if they don't participate they all get flagrants but the HC only gets one indirect. Then again, under 10.4.1 if 3 players dunk in warmups, the HC gets 3 indirects and is gone.

Can we justify charging each ASSistant with a T for acts committed at the same time? Absolutely per 10.4.1.A. But can we charge only one resulting indirect to the HC as a result? Probably, but it's not real clear.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at here, but I think I've got the basic gist.

By rule, you call a direct technical on each assistant that stood and yelled at the officials. The HC is charged with an indirect T for each of these technicals. If the number of TFs on the Assistants is 3 or more, then the HC is going to be ejected. 2 FTs for each TF on an assistant. Then the ball to the other team at the division line opposite the table.

But in reality this would only be the case if all 3 said something to earn a T, other wise I'm sticking one with a T. If it happens again I'm sticking one with a T again. I wouldn't dish out 3 T's here unless they each said "you're a @#$@# piece of @#$" or something to that effect. Then they are probably all gone, HC included. Game forfeit. I get to go home early. Not a bad finish actually.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by deecee

But in reality this would only be the case if all 3 said something to earn a T, other wise I'm sticking one with a T. If it happens again I'm sticking one with a T again. I wouldn't dish out 3 T's here unless they each said "you're a @#$@# piece of @#$" or something to that effect. Then they are probably all gone, HC included. Game forfeit. I get to go home early. Not a bad finish actually.

"When the fans leave the stands and all hell breaks loose, my job is done."

Deecee 2014 or 15. Still makes me chuckle. I can't remember which year you said it.