Vid request Travel Iowa State and Texas A And M

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When a player gets some air and changes his mind, some funny stuff can happen:

Clever, and legal, play.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Clever, and legal, play.

... If one believes that the ball handler shot the ball.

What if the official believes that the ball handler tried to pass the ball off the backboard?

Do officials always consider it a shot when an offensive player throws (from inbounds) a ball off is own backboard? If so, citation please.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... If one believes that the ball handler shot the ball.

What if the official believes that the ball handler tried to pass the ball off the backboard?

Do officials always consider it a shot when an offensive player throws (from inbounds) a ball off is own backboard? If so, citation please.

What would you call when a player throws the ball off his backboard, jumps, catches and then dunks it?

Camron is right. This is clever and legal.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... If one believes that the ball handler shot the ball.

What if the official believes that the ball handler tried to pass the ball off the backboard?

Do officials always consider it a shot when an offensive player throws (from inbounds) a ball off is own backboard? If so, citation please.

Legal 9.5. AR 105

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Legal 9.5. AR 105

NFHS citation please (I know that it's a college video).

Commentator: "He passes it to himself".

Not possible, by definition.

4-31: A pass is movement of the ball caused by a player who throws, bats or rolls the
ball to another player.

So if it's not a pass, and let's say the official deems it not to be a shot, then what is it, and is it legal, and why?

What if he did the same exact thing happened but without the ball hitting the backboard (ends dribble, lifts pivot foot (both feet), throws ball into air, deemed not to be a shot, catches it while still airborne (player and ball never hit the floor), passes it to another player while airborne)?

Or let's say that he does this in the middle of the court and throws the ball cross court (not toward the basket)(ends dribble, lifts pivot foot (both feet), throws ball into air, catches it while still airborne (player and ball never hit the floor), passes it to another player while airborne)?

I've looked through the travel rule and can't figure why these two examples above are illegal (maybe they're not). They seem illegal, but I can't put my finger on it. So are they legal?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by billymac

nfhs citation please (i know that it's a college video).

9.5.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... If one believes that the ball handler shot the ball.

What if the official believes that the ball handler tried to pass the ball off the backboard?

Do officials always consider it a shot when an offensive player throws (from inbounds) a ball off is own backboard? If so, citation please.

The same answer as when it's come up before. Just like whatever other items you keep raising in hopes(?) that NFHS has clarified.

You can't really prove it, but it's the way to go.

[BillyMac]

... Fools 'em every time. (Maxwell Smart, Secret Agent 86)

Originally Posted by BigCat

9.5.

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the
ball against: (a) his/her own backboard and catches the ball. RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard
is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used.

Thanks BigCat. (Of course it doesn't say what the player can legally do after he catches the ball, but it's still a pretty good "general purpose" citation.)

Now let's concentrate on these plays:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

What if he did the same exact thing happened but without the ball hitting the backboard (ends dribble, lifts pivot foot (both feet), throws ball into air, deemed not to be a shot, catches it while still airborne (player and ball never hit the floor), passes it to another player while airborne)?

Or let's say that he does this in the middle of the court and throws the ball cross court (not toward the basket)(ends dribble, lifts pivot foot (both feet), throws ball into air, catches it while still airborne (player and ball never hit the floor), passes it to another player while airborne)?

I've looked through the travel rule and can't figure why these two examples above are illegal (maybe they're not). They seem illegal, but I can't put my finger on it. So are they legal?

The more I think about it the more legal it becomes. His pivot foot never touches the floor after he becomes airborne. Am I correct that it's legal?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

... it's the way to go.

Agree.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

What if he did the same exact thing happened but without the ball hitting the backboard (ends dribble, lifts pivot foot (both feet), throws ball into air, deemed not to be a shot, catches it while still airborne (player and ball never hit the floor), passes it to another player while airborne)?

Or let's say that he does this in the middle of the court and throws the ball cross court (not toward the basket)(ends dribble, lifts pivot foot (both feet), throws ball into air, catches it while still airborne (player and ball never hit the floor), passes it to another player while airborne)?

I've looked through the travel rule and can't figure why these two examples above are illegal (maybe they're not). They seem illegal, but I can't put my finger on it. So are they legal?

All legal.

Traveling, with the exception of starting a dribble, always occurs when a foot comes down. If the player no longer has control of the ball when landing, they can't have traveled.

This is essentially the same as the case play wherein a player stands still and tosses the ball into the air and catches it....without moving the feet. It is deemed legal.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... Fools 'em every time. (Maxwell Smart, Secret Agent 86)



9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the
ball against: (a) his/her own backboard and catches the ball. RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard
is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used.

Thanks BigCat. (Of course it doesn't say what the player can legally do after he catches the ball, but it's still a pretty good "general purpose" citation.)

Now let's concentrate on these plays:



The more I think about it the more legal it becomes. His pivot foot never touches the floor after he becomes airborne. Am I correct that it's legal?

You can't pass the ball to yourself. Not sure why you're confusing this play with others plays you're giving.

It clearly says what the player can do after this. Think about it: A dribble picks up the dribble then throws it at something. Then is allowed to catch the ball again. It's basically the same as having a 6th man on the court for passing purposes. If the catch wasn't a travel then starting a dribble definitely isn't going to be traveling.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Dad

It clearly says what the player can do after this. Think about it: A dribble picks up the dribble then throws it at something. Then is allowed to catch the ball again. It's basically the same as having a 6th man on the court for passing purposes. If the catch wasn't a travel then starting a dribble definitely isn't going to be traveling.

Travel? How about an illegal dribble?

Clear? The caseplay doesn't even state if the player moves his feet between the throw and the catch. How can that be clear? He can't travel if he doesn't move his feet. It's the same as a player standing, not moving his pivot foot, or either foot, and tossing the ball up in the air a couple of times, which has already been interpreted as a non-call. The catch was never a travel because he never moved his feet. Since this caseplay does not identify the throw as a shot, then the player can only legally begin a new dribble under a few circumstances:

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended, unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.

Again, assuming it's not a shot (the caseplay doesn't call it a shot), has the ball touched an opponent; or was it a pass, or fumble, that was then touched by another player? We already know that you can't pass the ball to yourself (or your backboard, you can only pass to another player), so it wasn't a pass, plus it was never touched by another player. It was intentional so it wasn't a fumble, plus, again, it was never touched by another player. Did the ball ever touch an opponent?

Why wouldn't this be an illegal dribble?

Could it be that some interpret a ball thrown at the player's own backboard as always, automatically, being a shot? Where's the rule interpretation for that (NFHS)?

[deecee]

Billy how many other officials do you need to disagree with you before you accept an answer? The rule/case book doesn't cover every single possible scenario.

IF the player can legally catch the ball then what the heck do you think he/she can do afterwards with the ball?

In your case lets just say it's a shot and move on.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by deecee

In your case lets just say it's a shot and move on.

If it's a shot, yes, he can dribble. Fine. Move on from there.

But what if it's not a shot?

What if any ball thrown by a player at his own basket is not always considered a shot?

In any case, the casebook play is not clear that the player can legally dribble the ball a second time. Maybe he can, but it certainly isn't clear.

If the caseplay is so clear, please explain to me how the player can legally dribble a second time if the throw is not a shot. If it's clear, it should be quite easy to explain. Right?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by deecee

If the player can legally catch the ball then what the heck do you think he/she can do afterwards with the ball?

Pass. Shoot. Request a timeout. All legal. But until I'm convinced otherwise, he can't dribble.