The Name Game (Shirley Ellis, 1964) ...

[Nevadaref]

Billy, we went through this a few years ago when IAABO issued a ruling that such names could not be in the book. If I recall correctly, it stated that if the team member was not present at the start of the game, then his name could not be placed in the book at that time and would have to be added later upon his arrival creating a technical foul.

I didn't agree with it then and don't now.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Billy, we went through this a few years ago when IAABO issued a ruling that such names could not be in the book. If I recall correctly, it stated that if the team member was not present at the start of the game, then his name could not be placed in the book at that time and would have to be added later upon his arrival creating a technical foul. I didn't agree with it then and don't now.

Me too (I got the question wrong). Worst refresher exam question in IAABO history.

IAABO Refresher Exam 2005: Question 73. Squad member #45 missed the bus and is not present at the time the squad list and starting lineup must be submitted for team members. During the pregame warmup, the referee counts eleven team members of team A but while checking the book team A has twelve team members listed. Referee informs the coach that the squad member who is not present may not be placed in the book even if he/she will get to the game late. Is the referee correct? Answer: Yes Rule Citation: Rule 3, Section 2, Article 1; Rule 4, Section 34, Article 4

I know that IAABO isn't the official interpreter of NFHS rules, but is the interpretation based on existing NFHS rules, independent of IAABO, maybe not in the case above, but maybe with a injured kid not in uniform on the bench (this is the kid whose name my partner had erased)?

3-2-1: At least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time, each team
shall supply the official scorer with the name and number of each team member
and designate the five starting players. Failure to comply results in a technical foul
(see 10-1-1 Penalty).

So, who's a team member?

4-34-4: A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Me too (I got the question wrong). Worst refresher exam question in IAABO history.

IAABO Refresher Exam 2005: Question 73. Squad member #45 missed the bus and is not present at the time the squad list and starting lineup must be submitted for team members. During the pregame warmup, the referee counts eleven team members of team A but while checking the book team A has twelve team members listed. Referee informs the coach that the squad member who is not present may not be placed in the book even if he/she will get to the game late. Is the referee correct? Answer: Yes Rule Citation: Rule 3, Section 2, Article 1; Rule 4, Section 34, Article 4

I know that IAABO isn't the official interpreter of NFHS rules, but is the interpretation based on existing NFHS rules, independent of IAABO, maybe not in the case above, but maybe with a injured kid not in uniform on the bench (this is the kid whose name my partner had erased)?

3-2-1: At least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time, each team
shall supply the official scorer with the name and number of each team member
and designate the five starting players. Failure to comply results in a technical foul
(see 10-1-1 Penalty).

So, who's a team member?

4-34-4: A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player.

Maybe we should not reference IAABO tests in this forum.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Maybe we should not reference IAABO tests in this forum.

Especially 11 year old tests.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Maybe we should not reference IAABO tests in this forum.

Especially stupid IAABO tests with really silly interpretations.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Billy, we went through this a few years ago when IAABO issued a ruling that such names could not be in the book. If I recall correctly, it stated that if the team member was not present at the start of the game, then his name could not be placed in the book at that time and would have to be added later upon his arrival creating a technical foul.

I didn't agree with it then and don't now.

I know of no IAABO interpretation that states that if a team member in not present that team member's name cannot be listed in the score book. There is no NFHS or NCAA interpretation that prevents at team from having more names in the book than it has dressed at the start of the game.

MTD, Sr.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I know of no IAABO interpretation that states that if a team member in not present that team member's name cannot be listed in the score book. There is no NFHS or NCAA interpretation that prevents at team from having more names in the book than it has dressed at the start of the game.

MTD, Sr.

Seriously? Did you read post #14 in this thread by BillyMac?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Me too (I got the question wrong). Worst refresher exam question in IAABO history.

IAABO Refresher Exam 2005: Question 73. Squad member #45 missed the bus and is not present at the time the squad list and starting lineup must be submitted for team members. During the pregame warmup, the referee counts eleven team members of team A but while checking the book team A has twelve team members listed. Referee informs the coach that the squad member who is not present may not be placed in the book even if he/she will get to the game late. Is the referee correct? Answer: Yes Rule Citation: Rule 3, Section 2, Article 1; Rule 4, Section 34, Article 4

I know that IAABO isn't the official interpreter of NFHS rules, but is the interpretation based on existing NFHS rules, independent of IAABO, maybe not in the case above, but maybe with a injured kid not in uniform on the bench (this is the kid whose name my partner had erased)?

3-2-1: At least 10 minutes before the scheduled starting time, each team
shall supply the official scorer with the name and number of each team member
and designate the five starting players. Failure to comply results in a technical foul
(see 10-1-1 Penalty).

So, who's a team member?

4-34-4: A team member is a member of bench personnel who is in uniform and is eligible to become a player.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Nothing in those definitions says they have to be present.

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

That is the key. If some overly officious official wants to erase names from the book, then so be it. But if that player is later sent to the table to report in to the game, there is no penalty AS LONG AS THAT PLAYER'S NAME AND THE CORRECT NUMBER WAS PROPERLY PROVIDED TO THE SCORER PRIOR TO THE 10 MINUTE MARK.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Seriously? Did you read post #14 in this thread by BillyMac?

NevadaRef:

Yes, I did read Billy's post (Post #14), and I also remember that question from the 2005 IAABO Refresher Exam and as an IAABO member then and now, I said that the answer in the answer list was not correct, because as there is nothing illegal for a team to have more names in the scorebook than team members in uniform. And, no R can remove names from the scorebook.

Lets address IAABO. What I am about to write I have written before so the old hands will have to bear with me. I am an engineer by profession and a structural engineer by specialization.

We have engineering organizations that represent all engineers and three organizations come to mind: National Society of Professional Engineers (including its State and Local chapters), The Order of the Engineer (U.S.) and The Ritual Calling of the Engineer (Canada). We engineers also have specialization organizations such as ASCE (civil engineers), ASME (mechanical engineers), IEEE (electrical engineers), and the Structural Engineers Association of California, to name a few. These organizations provide continuing educational opportunities for its members as well as advocate for the profession.

The equivalent organizations for sports officials are: professional organizations: NASO and the NFHS Officials Assn.; specialization organizations for basketball: IAABO, CaliforniaBOA, and the various LBOAs and StateBOAs across the country. Sport officials organizations do the same for sports officials.

We as sports officials should be looking at our organizations as vehicles to improve our profession both individually and as a whole. They provide a gateway for officials to become more involved in their profession.

Alright, time for me to go to bed. Good night all.

MTD, Sr.