Illegal substitution?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03

So when does a player become a legal player. Why check in at all? I understand what your saying and I had nothing on this play either but there is a legitimate question here. Not as silly as you make it seem.

That's specifically covered in the rule book. Have a look. I'm surprised that an entire association would miss this.

[johnsonboys03]

Originally Posted by Rich

That's specifically covered in the rule book. Have a look. I'm surprised that an entire association would miss this.

I and we did look at it. Rule 3.3.3 but it is Not clear when he becomes a legal player. If you want to give rules in your answer I will gladly listen to you.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03

I and we did look at it. Rule 3.3.3 but it is Not clear when he becomes a legal player. If you want to give rules in your answer I will gladly listen to you.

I've edited your post. Consider this your only warning. We don't name call around here.

What is not clear about 3-3-3?

3-3-3: A substitute becomes a player when he/she legally enters the court. If entry is not legal, the substitute becomes a player when the ball becomes live. A player becomes bench personnel after his/her substitute becomes a player or after notification of the coach following his/her disqualification.

[johnsonboys03]

Originally Posted by Rich

I've edited your post. Consider this your only warning.

I don't normally talk that way but you struck a nerve. For you to talk to people as if there inferior does not make a productive forum. I would think we would all want a rules based open discussion. But that's just me.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03

I don't normally talk that way but you struck a nerve. For you to talk to people as if there inferior does not make a productive forum. I would think we would all want a rules based open discussion. But that's just me.

Again, this is not the word you want.

[johnsonboys03]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Again, this is not the word you want.

Sorry they're

[Rich]

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03

I don't normally talk that way but you struck a nerve. For you to talk to people as if there inferior does not make a productive forum. I would think we would all want a rules based open discussion. But that's just me.

Your initial post doesn't indicate that you or your association did any rules-based work. Why didn't you post a rule citation or two when you asked your question?

Since you're granting a timeout, there's no sub in the game. Since the player reported before the first warning horn, s/he can come in...or not...for any of the 5 players already on the floor.

EVEN IF the official beckoned in the sub after granting the timeout, I'd argue that the sub really isn't "in the game" and the official shouldn't be doing that.

[johnsonboys03]

Originally Posted by Rich

Your initial post doesn't indicate that you or your association did any rules-based work. Why didn't you post a rule citation or two when you asked your question?

Since you're granting a timeout, there's no sub in the game. Since the player reported before the first warning horn, s/he can come in...or not...for any of the 5 players already on the floor.

EVEN IF the official beckoned in the sub after granting the timeout, I'd argue that the sub really isn't "in the game" and the official shouldn't be doing that.

Ok I agree with you. I'm just looking for a rule that clarifies when a player becomes legal. Some could argue the contrary that If the player is beckoned on the floor that she is a legal player which would make the other player bench personal and would have to sit a tick. I just want to provide my chapter with proof of the rule. I apologize for my earlier comment. I should not have done that.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03

Ok I agree with you. I'm just looking for a rule that clarifies when a player becomes legal. Some could argue the contrary that If the player is beckoned on the floor that she is a legal player which would make the other player bench personal and would have to sit a tick. I just want to provide my chapter with proof of the rule. I apologize for my earlier comment. I should not have done that.

You've granted a timeout. What are the rules on substituting during a timeout? They apply as soon as the timeout is granted.

(I'll let you find those. )

[Adam]

Originally Posted by johnsonboys03

I don't normally talk that way but you struck a nerve. For you to talk to people as if there inferior does not make a productive forum. I would think we would all want a rules based open discussion. But that's just me.

I don't see anything that he said that should have struck a nerve. It was a bit curt, but if that hit a nerve, your nerves are a bit too close to the surface.

I was also surprised an entire association would miss this in a discussion. The rule is right there and pretty clear. No, "enters the court" doesn't happen during a timeout, no one is on the court at that point until the timeout is over.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Adam

No, "enters the court" doesn't happen during a timeout, no one is on the court at that point until the timeout is over.

Not true. Players remain players during time-outs. If a substitute reports during a time-out and then subsequently enters the inbounds area, he has met the rule requirements to become a player and replace one of the five players.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Not true. Players remain players during time-outs. If a substitute reports during a time-out and then subsequently enters the inbounds area, he has met the rule requirements to become a player and replace one of the five players.

I agree players remain players during timeouts. However, I do not agree that bench personnel can become players during the timeout. When the timeout is over and they enter the court I believe they become a player. Part of the Court during timeouts is called the timeout area. I also believe the player who reports during the timeout, runs back to huddle on floor can be withdrawn and player he was going to replace can stay in.

[BigCat]

If you beckon him and he steps inbounds he becomes a player. At that moment another player becomes bench personnel and cannot reenter before clock runs. If you grant a timeout before he enters he hasn't become a player yet.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Adam

No, "enters the court" doesn't happen during a timeout, no one is on the court at that point until the timeout is over.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Not true. Players remain players during time-outs. If a substitute reports during a time-out and then subsequently enters the inbounds area, he has met the rule requirements to become a player and replace one of the five players.

I meant to respond to this earlier and got distracted by life.

Nothing you said refutes my statement above. No one has entered the court, in fact, 5 players have left the court. What is the material error here?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Adam

I meant to respond to this earlier and got distracted by life.

Nothing you said refutes my statement above. No one has entered the court, in fact, 5 players have left the court. What is the material error here?

There is no rule stating that the switch takes place at the end of the time-out. In fact, the rule which we do have states that it takes place when the sub enters the court. That's all we need to know. It doesn't matter where the five players are standing. If the entering sub steps into the court, then a change has occurred. If not, then it happens when the kid does step in.