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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 06:23pm
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Bonus not double bonus

Didn't matter as it was a four point game, but I'm thinking the officials kicked this in an NFHS game.

With 2.9 seconds left, regular bonus for home. Official under the basket tells the players there are two shots. Visitors catch ball, not in real rebounding action, clock starts, and official whistles. 1.4 seconds on the clock.

Officials say going to the arrow (which happens to be for the visitors) and then huddle, apparently deciding not to put time on the clock.

It seemed to me (and I'm curious) that the two options were:

No time off the clock since play was not starting, and go to the arrow; or
Time off the clock, inadvertent whistle, and visitors have the ball because they were holding it when the whistle blew.

As I said at the top, didn't matter as there was no way they could score twice even with the 2.9, but curious what the right ruling should have been.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 06:32pm
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The officials fixed this on the court in the proper manner.
The erroneous info prevented one team from attempting to rebound.
Therefore, play must be stopped and the AP arrow used.
There is no rule permitting the officials to restore time to the clock.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 06:40pm
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Clock should never been chopped in so I would put time back.

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 06:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Clock should never been chopped in so I would put time back.

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Not true.

If the non-administering official was not aware that the partner provided incorrect information to the players and knew that it was a 1&1 situation, this official would have correctly chopped in time.

Also, if the official fails to properly chop for the clock to start the timer is authorized BY RULE to start the clock.

Either way the NFHS rules do not allow you to restore any time here as there was no timing error. There was an information error.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 06:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Not true.

If the non-administering official was not aware that the partner provided incorrect information to the players and knew that it was a 1&1 situation, this official would have correctly chopped in time.

Also, if the official fails to properly chop for the clock to start the timer is authorized BY RULE to start the clock.

Either way the NFHS rules do not allow you to restore any time here as there was no timing error. There was an information error.
If it was my whistle, it would be immediate. I would see the time on the clock when my whistle blew.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 06:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
The officials fixed this on the court in the proper manner.
The erroneous info prevented one team from attempting to rebound.
Therefore, play must be stopped and the AP arrow used.
There is no rule permitting the officials to restore time to the clock.
Could you please point me to the rule/case citation for this? Thanks in advance.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 07:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bas2456 View Post
Could you please point me to the rule/case citation for this? Thanks in advance.
Case Book play 8.6.1
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 07:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Case Book play 8.6.1
Thanks. Was talking about this exact situation with some other officials and we couldn't come to a consensus.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 07:59pm
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Let's Go To The Videotape ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Case Book play 8.6.1
8.6.1 SITUATION: A1 is about to attempt the first of a one-and-one free-throw
situation. The administering official steps in and erroneously informs players that
two shots will be taken. A1's first attempt is unsuccessful. The missed shot is
rebounded by: (a) B1, with all other players motionless in anticipation of another throw; (b) A2, with all other players motionless in anticipation of another throw;
or (c) B2, with several players from both teams attempting to secure the rebound.
The officials recognize their error at this point. RULING: In (a) and (b), the official's
error clearly put one team at a disadvantage (players stood motionless and
didn't attempt to rebound). Play should be whistled dead immediately and
resumed using the alternating-possession procedure. In (c), both teams made an
attempt to rebound despite the official's error and had an equal opportunity to
gain possession of the rebound. Play should continue. (2-3)
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 10, 2016, 08:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
If it was my whistle, it would be immediate. I would see the time on the clock when my whistle blew.
That's very different than saying that you would restore time in the situation presented by the OP. The OP clearly wrote that there was 1.4 seconds left after the whistle blew.

Quote:
Originally Posted by so cal lurker View Post
With 2.9 seconds left, regular bonus for home. Official under the basket tells the players there are two shots. Visitors catch ball, not in real rebounding action, clock starts, and official whistles. 1.4 seconds on the clock.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 11, 2016, 02:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Not true.

If the non-administering official was not aware that the partner provided incorrect information to the players and knew that it was a 1&1 situation, this official would have correctly chopped in time.

Also, if the official fails to properly chop for the clock to start the timer is authorized BY RULE to start the clock.

Either way the NFHS rules do not allow you to restore any time here as there was no timing error. There was an information error.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Case Book play 8.6.1

Nevada:

I agree with you up to the point about the time that should be on the clock when the AP Throw-in is taken. It is my opinion that 2.9 seconds should be on the clock.

That said, it is after 02:15amEST and is way past my bedtime. I stayed up with my "better half" to watch a movie that started at 11:00pm and ended at 02:00am. I did not want to stay up late and watch the movie but I did watched the movie with her because I did not want to her stay up alone. Instead she fell asleep 20 minutes into the movie and I stayed up to the bitter end, .

Junior and I have a game at 05:00pmEST and I need my beauty sleep. So good night all.

MTD, Sr.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 11, 2016, 02:54am
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The play says nothing about the clock. I would also be inclined to put the clock at 2.9 as well.

Then again this should never happen as the crew should be paying attention to each other or asking questions if the FT attempt are incorrectly stated to the teams. Prevent it from happening an you do not have to worry about the clock or when to stop the game.

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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 11, 2016, 03:49am
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Game action occurred. It was timed. What rule allows the restoration of time consumed before the officials stopped play with a whistle?

Don't compound one mistake with another.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 11, 2016, 07:22am
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Why not put 2.5 back on the clock? The ball became dead when the player from the visiting team "caught" the ball. We have knowledge that by rule a player can only tap the ball on a try for goal with .3 on the clock. If there were .4 left he could potentially catch and shoot. With the inadvertent whistle the POI is the player catching the rebound, ball now dead, AP throw in, clock adjusted by .4 for the time consumed in catching the rebound. Just an early morning pre-coffee analysis.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 11, 2016, 08:28am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyu2 View Post
Why not put 2.5 back on the clock? The ball became dead when the player from the visiting team "caught" the ball. We have knowledge that by rule a player can only tap the ball on a try for goal with .3 on the clock. If there were .4 left he could potentially catch and shoot. With the inadvertent whistle the POI is the player catching the rebound, ball now dead, AP throw in, clock adjusted by .4 for the time consumed in catching the rebound. Just an early morning pre-coffee analysis.
That makes some sense, and some rules codes (I think) have such a provision (also perhaps used when an inbounds pass is tipped immediately out of bounds, or a TO is requested immediately upon a rebound, etc.)

But, it has no basis in NFHS or NCAA rules..
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