Bonus not double bonus

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by OKREF

It's 8.6.1 But it doesn't say anything about putting time back on the clock.

SITUATION: A1 is about to attempt the first of a one and one free throw situation. The administrating official steps in and erroneously informs players that two free throws will be taken. A1's first attempt is unsuccessful. The missed free throw is rebound by; (a) B1, with all other players motionless in anticipation of another throw; (b) A2, with all other players motionless in anticipation of another throw; or (c) B2 with several players from both teams attempting to secure the rebound. The officials recognize their error at this point.

RULING: In (a) and (b), the officials error clearly put one team at a disadvantage (players stood motionless and didn't attempt to rebound). Play should be ruled dead immediately and resumed using the AP procedure. In (c), both teams made and attempt to rebound despite the official's error and had an equal opportunity to gain possession of the rebound. Play should continue.

However rule

5.10.2 art 1...The referee may correct an obvious mistake by the time to start or stop the clock properly only when he/she has definite information relative to the time involved. The exact time observed by the official may be placed on the clock.
5.10.2 art 2...If the referee determines that the clock malfunctioned or was not started/stopped properly, or if the clock did not run, an officials count or other official information may be used to make correction.

I don't think its a reach to say we could stop the play if only one team plays the ball and put the time back on the clock, if the officials knew what was on the clock when the free throw took place.

Especially since the case play says play should be stopped immediately.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by frezer11

The only way I can figure that you could POSSIBLY put time back on the clock is if you claim that the whistle was blown when the ball was first touched on the rebound. But not only is this not true in the OP, but it would almost never be true, as the recognition that not both teams reacted takes at least some amount of process time.....

I recognize it immediately upon the release of the free throw. During that time frame the clock is not running. So, yes, it is possible to kill the play without any time coming off the clock.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I recognize it immediately upon the release of the free throw. During that time frame the clock is not running. So, yes, it is possible to kill the play without any time coming off the clock.

Well if you recognized it before the release, why in the world would you let it get this far? If you heard your partner say 2 when it was really a 1-1, stop the action then, correct the issue, then re-administer properly.

The OP said or implied that the error was not recognized until the teams failed to go for the rebound.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by frezer11

Well if you recognized it before the release, why in the world would you let it get this far? If you heard your partner say 2 when it was really a 1-1, stop the action then, correct the issue, then re-administer properly.

The OP said or implied that the error was not recognized until the teams failed to go for the rebound.

And when do players start going for the rebound?

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And when do players start going for the rebound?

Ok, fair enough, but can you confirm with certainty that they are not going for a rebound in this time? It might be possible, don't get me wrong, but I think I'd have to see how they are reacting and have some process time to realize what the error is.

Let me put it this way, if your partner correctly said 1-1, you are the C and the shot goes up and no one seems to move much, are you going to immediately kill it? Unless I'm sure that there was a miscommunication, I'm probably going to be sure there is an issue before blowing it dead. Granted in this situation, time is critical, but I'm also not going to blow a live ball dead until I know something is up.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Dad

It has to be egregious for me to fix it. 99% of the time I agree with you, but here's where I don't(opinion):

H is up by one. V hits the ball out of bounds with two seconds to go. I call H ball, but V runs out of bounds and I give it to them. V1 passes to V2 and V2 scores a basket - buzzer. Even if the rules don't allow me to fix this, I'm doing it anyway.

OMG!!!

You are going to blatantly cheat the visiting team and go directly against a very clearly written ruling. You shouldn't be officiating.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Was an unmerited free throw awarded? I don't think so, the second unmerited free throw never happened. The officials provided the wrong information. I don't believe this is a CE situation.

The NFHS has stated in previous rulings included in the past interpretations archive that a situation such as this is not a CE. Announcing the wrong info is not the same as actually administering an unmerited FT. This is simply an officials' mistake.

[BlueDevilRef]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The NFHS has stated in previous rulings included in the past interpretations archive that a situation such as this is not a CE. Announcing the wrong info is not the same as actually administering an unmerited FT. This is simply an officials' mistake.

And again, I ask....why aren't these type of mistakes errr, ERRORS, correctable? Have they ever been or has it been discussed to add them as such?


I wish I had a cool signature

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

And again, I ask....why aren't these type of mistakes errr, ERRORS, correctable? Have they ever been or has it been discussed to add them as such?


I wish I had a cool signature

Because it's not one of the 5 correctable errors. Simple enough.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

It was awarded when the administering official stated "two shots." It was not corrected until after the clock started. Otherwise, what's the basis for stopping play at all?

I disagree. It isn't awarded until is taken. The basis for stopping play is basically fairness by way of interpretation, not by any specific rule. The only way to stop the clock otherwise would be to declare the ball to have been dead on the miss and then we'd be putting time back.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

And again, I ask....why aren't these type of mistakes errr, ERRORS, correctable? Have they ever been or has it been discussed to add them as such?


I wish I had a cool signature

Not in my 17 years of officiating. The NFHS and NCAA have stuck with the five CE situations. That's it. Everything else is a mistake by the officials. Some of those can be fixed, others can't and you are stuck with them.

Sports isn't perfect. It is a human activity that is going to be flawed. Mistakes are part of the game.

[billyu2]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The officials fixed this on the court in the proper manner.
The erroneous info prevented one team from attempting to rebound.
Therefore, play must be stopped and the AP arrow used.
There is no rule permitting the officials to restore time to the clock.

So Lead erroneously tells players 2 FTs. 1st shot is missed, players don't pursue the ball. Ball is caught by opponent, clock starts, opponent immediately tosses ball to the Lead for the second free throw, whistle sounds to stop the clock just as horn goes off, ball game. Correct?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by billyu2

So Lead erroneously tells players 2 FTs. 1st shot is missed, players don't pursue the ball. Ball is caught by opponent, clock starts, opponent immediately tosses ball to the Lead for the second free throw, whistle sounds to stop the clock just as horn goes off, ball game. Correct?

Yes, that is how the rules are.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

OMG!!!

You are going to blatantly cheat the visiting team and go directly against a very clearly written ruling. You shouldn't be officiating.

Cheat the cheating team out of cheating.

The day my competence is low enough for this to happen I'm retiring anyway. May as well retire giving you an ulcer.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BlueDevilRef

And again, I ask....why aren't these type of mistakes errr, ERRORS, correctable? Have they ever been or has it been discussed to add them as such?


I wish I had a cool signature

What was the correctable error? What would be your remedy for this new correctable error?