Another suspension looming?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

How about some punishment for not knowing the rule? Make some room for those who have dedicated themselves to knowing the rules. this wouls also send the message that you can't just keep sliding by with general rules. Sure Freshman, JV etc, education is needed and maybe no punishment but at the Varsity level? I think it is warranted, just to send the message that if you want to work varsity, you have to know your stuff.

I haven't heard any complaining about crews missing rules in 2 years. That's not to say that a crew hasn't missed anything -- I just don't hear about every detail in every game.

90% of what I hear has to do with coach behavior and technical fouls either given or not given.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by Rich

I haven't heard any complaining about crews missing rules in 2 years. That's not to say that a crew hasn't missed anything -- I just don't hear about every detail in every game.

90% of what I hear has to do with coach behavior and technical fouls either given or not given.

That's fine. I don't expect you to. But something as egregious and outcome changing as this, I would think would at least warrant 1 game suspension, no post season, education, and maybe have them speak in the next meeting about what happens when you don't know the rules. Judgement is one thing but kicking rules is another.

I would suspect if there was some kind of penalty for kicking a rule there would be a whole lot less of it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

That's fine. I don't expect you to. But something as egregious and outcome changing as this, I would think would at least warrant 1 game suspension, no post season, education, and maybe have them speak in the next meeting about what happens when you don't know the rules. Judgement is one thing but kicking rules is another.

I would suspect if there was some kind of penalty for kicking a rule there would be a whole lot less of it.

Maybe, but there's also the fact that college pays a lot more. When you're making that much, you're up for a higher level of scrutiny.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Adam

Maybe, but there's also the fact that college pays a lot more. When you're making that much, you're up for a higher level of scrutiny.

Not all college conference officiating pays anywhere near as much as you think it does. DI major conference, yes absolutely. Work at the DII and DIII levels and some schools pay the same or less than what officials working high school make.

The DII conference I went to school in was one of the lowest paying in the country for DII and DIII when I was there. I worked HS ball with officials who also did games in the conference and they said there were high schools that paid more than what they got for a college varsity game. The only difference was that the conference started paying for some travel expenses, something that is very rare for high school officials in this state.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Not all college conference officiating pays anywhere near as much as you think it does. DI major conference, yes absolutely. Work at the DII and DIII levels and some schools pay the same or less than what officials working high school make.

The DII conference I went to school in was one of the lowest paying in the country for DII and DIII when I was there. I worked HS ball with officials who also did games in the conference and they said there were high schools that paid more than what they got for a college varsity game. The only difference was that the conference started paying for some travel expenses, something that is very rare for high school officials in this state.

I can't imagine a D2 or D3 paying less than HS. I work in three D3's and the lowest paying is $170. My JuCo pays $145.

[Sharpshooternes]

Originally Posted by Rich

I haven't heard any complaining about crews missing rules in 2 years. That's not to say that a crew hasn't missed anything -- I just don't hear about every detail in every game.

90% of what I hear has to do with coach behavior and technical fouls either given or not given.

And the other real problem is that coaches don't know the rules either so they don't know when to complain.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes

And the other real problem is that coaches don't know the rules either so they don't know when to complain.

This is usually the case. But not always.

Recently my crew dorked up a FT situation. I was L (U) and paying close attention to a problem child after I called a shooting foul on A1, so I missed that the shot went in. 2.8 seconds left second quarter. Partner (R) was lazy and didn't want to switch, and in the process he didn't tell me that the ball went in. So I announce two shots for B1, he's asleep by the table, and the players don't move after the first shot. FT missed. Then....buzzer. We figure it out and make sure the original FG by B1 is scored, and then we get together and I properly say that since no one moved and the FT was missed, we need to go to the arrow (which was in B's favor).

And this is where I sometimes loathe being the 36-year old U working with the 55-year old R. He says, "no, no, no, I'm not going to reward B with a possession with 2.8 seconds left when they're up by 15; it's A's ball, let's go."



But it gets better! Coach B, to his credit, knows the rule! And he wants his AP throw-in, and the R still doesn't give it to him even after he got called on it. It was....uncomfortable (to say the least).

[Adam]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

This is usually the case. But not always.

Recently my crew dorked up a FT situation. I was L (U) and paying close attention to a problem child after I called a shooting foul on A1, so I missed that the shot went in. 2.8 seconds left second quarter. Partner (R) was lazy and didn't want to switch, and in the process he didn't tell me that the ball went in. So I announce two shots for B1, he's asleep by the table, and the players don't move after the first shot. FT missed. Then....buzzer. We figure it out and make sure the original FG by B1 is scored, and then we get together and I properly say that since no one moved and the FT was missed, we need to go to the arrow (which was in B's favor).

And this is where I sometimes loathe being the 36-year old U working with the 55-year old R. He says, "no, no, no, I'm not going to reward B with a possession with 2.8 seconds left when they're up by 15; it's A's ball, let's go."



But it gets better! Coach B, to his credit, knows the rule! And he wants his AP throw-in, and the R still doesn't give it to him even after calling him out. It was....uncomfortable (to say the least).

It's probably a good thing I'm not a coach, because I'd push this issue until I got a technical foul. I wouldn't do it every time, but there'd be cases where I did it because the calling official has to write a report here every time a technical is called.

I'd make sure my report included the fact that the R knew the rule and still refused to enforce it properly.

Then again, if I'm up by 15, I'm probably just sitting down and smiling.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

...
And this is where I sometimes loathe being the 36-year old U working with the 55-year old R...

What if you were a 55 year-old U and the R was 36? Would it make a difference? Take that whole age thing out of your brain.

Because I got into officiating late in life, I work many college games with guys who are younger than me but have been doing 5-10 years longer than I have.