Great vengeance and furious anger...

[packersowner]

I like the part about the coaching box. It's not just officials that need this reminder, game management needs a reminder as well. There are so many of these types of things that get lost.


Add to the list:

- having your court marked with an X
- your scorer wearing stripes
- having your a coaching box marked (as noted)


My only problem is that now I have a visiting team coach who can't stand because the AD from the home school can't find some tape.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by packersowner

My only problem is that now I have a visiting team coach who can't stand because the AD from the home school can't find some tape.

Yeah, I can see that but at least it's a shared pain.

I just had a game with this association Tuesday. A team wearing orange jerseys walked in with players wearing:

*White t-shirts
*Black t-shirts
*White tights
*Black tights

As I addressed it with the head coach he said - calmly and with no disrespect - "Okay, so we're enforcing the rule today. I got it." That's even more frustrating because it means he knows the rule and won't do anything about it unless told by the officials.

Meantime, the opponent - in its home whites - had a player with a pink headband and a camouflage headband. My first thought when I saw them was, "Who the heck had these kids in their first few games of the season?"

On another note, I received an email today from the same association reminding officials they are not allowed to wear fitbits on their wrists during games. Seriously? We have met the enemy and it is us...

[Kansas Ref]

I expected the issue of "fashion policing" to arise this season because some refs are prone to say in pregame with captains and coaches: "...well, your undershirts [or compression tights] are not the right [matching] color, but we're going to let it pass this time--but try to fix it in the future."
This type of leniency [i.e., 'rule kicking'] makes me look like a gestappo when I have a game and I tell the Coach that A1 and B3 can't participate until their uni' issues are fixed. Then Coach replies: "well, the refs from last week were OK with these unis". Grrrrrrrr!!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

I expected the issue of "fashion policing" to arise this season because some refs are prone to say in pregame with captains and coaches: "...well, your undershirts [or compression tights] are not the right [matching] color, but we're going to let it pass this time--but try to fix it in the future."
This type of leniency [i.e., 'rule kicking'] makes me look like a gestappo when I have a game and I tell the Coach that A1 and B3 can't participate until their uni' issues are fixed. Then Coach replies: "well, the refs from last week were OK with these unis". Grrrrrrrr!!

I don't worry about the coaches' responses. I've had multiple games this season, college and HS, where we've had to get players to correct fashion errors. We've had no issues in getting the situations corrected.

[deecee]

Who cares about coaches response. When a coach says something like, "well in our last game" or "the other refs" my response now is short. "I don't care." I used to think I needed to say more than that but I don't. It also is a bit annoying to me when partners try and "smooth" it over with coaches over this. It sounds so apologetic.

I tell the players or coaches I don't care what they do with their uniform. They just may not be allowed to play. It's their choice which direction they want to go.

[so cal lurker]

Fashion rules have been totally unenforced in the JV tournaments I've watched over the past several weeks. (White under dark; black under white; variety of colors on the same team . . . I only know these rules from lurking here, but I'm pretty sure every single fashion rule has been violated in the current tournament -- except headbands, perhaps.)

And the suspicious part of me wonders if it was coincidence that one team's best player was wearing long sleeved black shirt under his red uniform to make him easier to identify . . .

But I really don't think it is fair to blame coaches, whether they've heard of the rule or not. If the refs are too darned lazy to enforce it (or, perhaps for tournaments, been told not to), why should the coaches spend any time worrying about it?

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Fashion rules have been totally unenforced in the JV tournaments I've watched over the past several weeks. (White under dark; black under white; variety of colors on the same team . . . I only know these rules from lurking here, but I'm pretty sure every single fashion rule has been violated in the current tournament -- except headbands, perhaps.)

And the suspicious part of me wonders if it was coincidence that one team's best player was wearing long sleeved black shirt under his red uniform to make him easier to identify . . .

But I really don't think it is fair to blame coaches, whether they've heard of the rule or not. If the refs are too darned lazy to enforce it (or, perhaps for tournaments, been told not to), why should the coaches spend any time worrying about it?

In my area, and I am told in many others, the fashion rules are not strictly enforced for sub-varsity. For that matter, during non-district varsity games (particularly early in the season) they get a "warning" and the rules is explained so they understand when the rule in enforced later in the year. It's just the way the "powers that be" want them handled here.

When it comes to the box, if it is not marked on the floor we are told to let the association president and assignor know after the game so they can address it with the school. Of course, that is probably because in virtually every case it is strongly suggested that as long as the coaches are only communicating with their team to allow leeway when it comes to the box. If a coach starts becoming a problem that is when we are to enforce the box. Honestly, I cannot remember the last time I had a problem with a coach straying very far (read more than a couple of feet) from the box in any high school game.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Fashion rules have been totally unenforced in the JV tournaments I've watched over the past several weeks. (White under dark; black under white; variety of colors on the same team . . . I only know these rules from lurking here, but I'm pretty sure every single fashion rule has been violated in the current tournament -- except headbands, perhaps.)

And the suspicious part of me wonders if it was coincidence that one team's best player was wearing long sleeved black shirt under his red uniform to make him easier to identify . . .

But I really don't think it is fair to blame coaches, whether they've heard of the rule or not. If the refs are too darned lazy to enforce it (or, perhaps for tournaments, been told not to), why should the coaches spend any time worrying about it?

It's not fair to blame the coaches?

Coaches are responsible for knowing the rules. It is not up to the officials to teach them.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

It's not fair to blame the coaches?

Coaches are responsible for knowing the rules. It is not up to the officials to teach them.

It has nothing to do with "teaching" them. As in the OP, many may well know but worry about other things -- coach behaved perfectly appropriately when told it needed to be fixed. But do you expect a defender to not use an illegal arm bar when one is applied to him each time down the court? Do you expect a player to not go into the lane early when the ref is not calling it when the other team does? Players and coaches adjust to what is enforced. If the referees in the area choose not to enforce a rule, why should the coach spend his time worrying about unilaterally complying with that instead of the myriad other things he has to think about? As soon as refs in an area enforce with a modicum of consistency, the problem goes away completely.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

But I really don't think it is fair to blame coaches, whether they've heard of the rule or not. If the refs are too darned lazy to enforce it (or, perhaps for tournaments, been told not to), why should the coaches spend any time worrying about it?

I totally disagree. I see many coaches that know the rules, only to not tell their players directly what they are not going to play with. They ultimately allow their kids to wear certain things. We just enforce the rule. But they know what they look like in the locker room or what the expectations of the coach is, why are they not telling them what they will not allow and move on? NO, they put it on us to see and in many cases, we do not even know what they have on until right before game time.

Peace

[PAlbc]

While not a referee, I do spend a lot of time at games of various levels. To reiterate a point mentioned earlier I have never seen a sub-varsity level game have the "fashion" rules applied, even though I have seen it "warned" dozens (even by the same refs at different parts of the season). Girls pre-wrap color is the most comical.

At the Varsity level it really only appears like undershirts are what the refs focused on. I'll be honest though, because those pre-game talks happen a bit further away in a louder environment I can't be sure if they are actually discussing the sleeves/tights/bands as well. I just know I've seen kids sent back off for a t-shirt color, but not for tights/sleeves.

That being said it does appear most teams are getting better at compliance consistency (at the varsity level). Though I did point out to a kid who started cramping up in the 3rd quarter once "It's 75 degrees in here, you're sweating like a pig, and are wearing full arm under armour and full length tights. Maybe not such a good idea?".

[BDevil15]

Originally Posted by deecee

Who cares about coaches response. When a coach says something like, "well in our last game" or "the other refs" my response now is short. "I don't care." I used to think I needed to say more than that but I don't. It also is a bit annoying to me when partners try and "smooth" it over with coaches over this. It sounds so apologetic.

I tell the players or coaches I don't care what they do with their uniform. They just may not be allowed to play. It's their choice which direction they want to go.

I know it's easy to call these rules Fashion rules and treat them like they are a waste of time but there are reasons for players to wear tights and undershirts. If there wasn't a reason for them it would be very easy for coaches to say to their players that they can't wear these items and just resolve the problem. However, when you have kids geared in exactly the same way in two different games in the same section/association and officials are not enforcing the rules the same way, imagine how frustrating that is to coaches. Coaches don't want to be worrying about this nonsense any more than you do and when officials aren't all on the same page "well last nights officials said this" is actually a valid reason for confusion and non-compliance.

Every game is officiated differently and we can deal with that as a skill to teach our players, but when the rules are different on a given night it becomes absurd, and rather than looking in the mirror and realizing that this problem is not always on the coach, you aren't helping anybody.

I know some coaches are complete morons and act like buffoons and treat officials poorly, I know that some coaches don't have a great understanding of the rules or bother to know these things and keep track of changes, but that doesn't mean that all coaches are trying to slip one past the officials when they aren't in compliance, some are just genuinely confused and want it to be handled better by teams and officials alike.

We are almost half way through our season and I still see Varsity teams who are playing games in illegal uniforms, and although that may be a coaches "Fault", it still shouldn't be happening and that is the officials responsibility.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by BDevil15

...However, when you have kids geared in exactly the same way in two different games in the same section/association and officials are not enforcing the rules the same way, imagine how frustrating that is to coaches. Coaches don't want to be worrying about this nonsense any more than you do and when officials aren't all on the same page "well last nights officials said this" is actually a valid reason for confusion and non-compliance.

Valid reason for confusion, yes.

Valid reason for non-compliance, NO!

Where I'm at, we have a couple of tournaments before Christmas, but the season doesn't begin in earnest at the high school level until after Christmas break is over. We make it a point to educate as much as possible during these pre-season tournies, not just on the uniform rules, but on the rule changes and points of emphasis as well. We have one official in particular in our association who advocates this, saying that the more fouls we call NOW, early in the season, the quicker the coaches and players will get the clue and make some adjustments so we aren't having to make those calls as often when we get to March.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by BDevil15

I know it's easy to call these rules Fashion rules and treat them like they are a waste of time but there are reasons for players to wear tights and undershirts. If there wasn't a reason for them it would be very easy for coaches to say to their players that they can't wear these items and just resolve the problem. However, when you have kids geared in exactly the same way in two different games in the same section/association and officials are not enforcing the rules the same way, imagine how frustrating that is to coaches. Coaches don't want to be worrying about this nonsense any more than you do and when officials aren't all on the same page "well last nights officials said this" is actually a valid reason for confusion and non-compliance.

Every game is officiated differently and we can deal with that as a skill to teach our players, but when the rules are different on a given night it becomes absurd, and rather than looking in the mirror and realizing that this problem is not always on the coach, you aren't helping anybody.

I know some coaches are complete morons and act like buffoons and treat officials poorly, I know that some coaches don't have a great understanding of the rules or bother to know these things and keep track of changes, but that doesn't mean that all coaches are trying to slip one past the officials when they aren't in compliance, some are just genuinely confused and want it to be handled better by teams and officials alike.

We are almost half way through our season and I still see Varsity teams who are playing games in illegal uniforms, and although that may be a coaches "Fault", it still shouldn't be happening and that is the officials responsibility.

I've never had coaches give me an (bad)attitude over uniforms. Maybe they'll ask a question about the rule, and after I give them a quick rule answer we're done. I'm not sure how your association(s) work, but if uniforms aren't enforced around here the assigner is giving you a call and asking why he's assigning you games.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

I expected the issue of "fashion policing" to arise this season because some refs are prone to say in pregame with captains and coaches: "...well, your undershirts [or compression tights] are not the right [matching] color, but we're going to let it pass this time--but try to fix it in the future."
This type of leniency [i.e., 'rule kicking'] makes me look like a gestappo when I have a game and I tell the Coach that A1 and B3 can't participate until their uni' issues are fixed. Then Coach replies: "well, the refs from last week were OK with these unis". Grrrrrrrr!!

And that's when you say, "Those officials were scheduled for your game today, but had to attend some rules training regarding proper uniforms tonight instead, so you're stuck with me tonight."