I also cannot think straight

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

Let's assume that somebody doesn't call this a double dribble, which I agree it is. Could the "secondary" call (if you miss the double dribble) be a travel? You essentially ended up passing to yourself after you lost your dribble. I think that is the call that the crowd, coaches, and players would understand and not argue with.

I'm going to say this again. Recovering a fumble is never a travel. You can't travel if you don't have possession of the ball.

4-44-1. Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by OKREF

I'm going to say this again. Recovering a fumble is never a travel. You can't travel if you don't have possession of the ball.

4-44-1. Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball.

What if a player picks up their dribble and they conveniently "fumble" the ball towards the hoop, pick it up before the defense (bad defense by the way) and then shoot a layup? No call?

I very well understand the rules and the definitions. It just doesn't seem like a legal basketball move when you are stuck without your dribble. I guess we have to go back to you can fumble-dribble-fumble but you cannot dribble-fumble-dribble.

[BlueDevilRef]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

What if a player picks up their dribble and they conveniently "fumble" the ball towards the hoop, pick it up before the defense (bad defense by the way) and then shoot a layup? No call?



I very well understand the rules and the definitions. It just doesn't seem like a legal basketball move when you are stuck without your dribble. I guess we have to go back to you can fumble-dribble-fumble but you cannot dribble-fumble-dribble.

Fumble is not an intentional act like the one described by you.


I wish I had a cool signature

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

conveniently "fumble"

Impossible.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

What if a player picks up their dribble and they conveniently "fumble" the ball towards the hoop, pick it up before the defense (bad defense by the way) and then shoot a layup? No call?

I very well understand the rules and the definitions. It just doesn't seem like a legal basketball move when you are stuck without your dribble. I guess we have to go back to you can fumble-dribble-fumble but you cannot dribble-fumble-dribble.

You're working very hard to justify ignoring the rule.

If they "fumble" the ball, you have judged them to have released it intentionally. It is an illegal dribble when they touch it again. (Not travelling, despite your desire to make the call everyone in the gym wants.)

If they in fact fumble the ball, there is nothing illegal there. It is a no call.

You can't determine whether a release was intentional based on whether it was beneficial to the offense. You have to actually use your judgement.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

What if a player picks up their dribble and they conveniently "fumble" the ball towards the hoop, pick it up before the defense (bad defense by the way) and then shoot a layup? No call?

If it is merely convenient (i.e. fortuitous in time) -- but actually a fumble -- then there is no call to be made; if it is, in the opinion of the referee, deliberately released to look like a fumble, then it is a violation -- but it is not a travelling violation.

You've made a lot of posts in this thread, but still not provided any rules basis on which the play in question could possibly be a traveling violation.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

What if a player picks up their dribble and they conveniently "fumble" the ball towards the hoop, pick it up before the defense (bad defense by the way) and then shoot a layup? No call?

I very well understand the rules and the definitions. It just doesn't seem like a legal basketball move when you are stuck without your dribble. I guess we have to go back to you can fumble-dribble-fumble but you cannot dribble-fumble-dribble.

You use your judgment. If you think the fumble was intentional, then it's not a fumble so you can make a call. If you think it's a fumble, there's no call to make.

[BatteryPowered]

OK...raises hand and confesses...I did not read every post so my apologies if these have been asked previously.

To those contending this is a pass...have you ever seen a player fake a pass? I have. How do you know that the player INTENDED to pass the ball? Just because it looks like that was the intent? Isn't deception one of the characteristics of a good fake?

As far as I am concerned...the situation in the OP is a fumble and can be recovered by anyone.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by Adam

You use your judgment. If you think the fumble was intentional, then it's not a fumble so you can make a call. If you think it's a fumble, there's no call to make.

Thank you for the response without being a condescending douche like some of these gods of officiating. I look forward to more responses from you and your help in learning more.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

Thank you for the response without being a condescending douche like some of these gods of officiating. I look forward to more responses from you and your help in learning more.

We're all (well most of us anyway) here to learn, and sadly I'm not immune to the temptation to be a condescending douche at times.

It's an internet hazard. As Spock said, "Constant exposure does result in a certain degree of - contamination."

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

You use your judgment. If you think the fumble was intentional, then it's not a fumble so you can make a call. If you think it's a fumble, there's no call to make.

4-21: A fumble is the accidental loss of player control when the ball unintentionally
drops or slips from a player’s grasp.