I also cannot think straight

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by deecee

Before you try and get into a match of wits I'll spell it out for you since your rule book is probably misplaced

4-15-1: A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats (intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor once or several times. It is not a part of a dribble when teh ball touches a player's own backboard.

1-15-3: The dribble begins by pushing, throwing or batting the ball to the floor before the pivot foot is lifted.

Now, stay with me, because it may go over your head. How can a player with control go to make a pass (an intentional act) then intentionally change his mind, and you call that a FUMBLE?????

A fumble is when a player goes to pick up his dribble cut FUMBLES gathering the ball. You can't have control of the ball with both hands go to pass, change your mind and then suddenly FUMBLE. It's throwing the ball to the floor and the start of a dribble.

Changing your mind in the middle of the pass and losing control of the ball is not an intentional act of striking the ball or pushing it to the floor. It is called a fumble, by definition, as determined by the rule makers of the game. Unfortunately as you can see below, they have a different definition of what a fumble is than you do (see below). As with most things you comment on here, it seems as though you have been messing this up for 15 years as well.

FUMBLE
A fumble is the accidental loss of player control when the ball unintentionally drops or slips from a player's grasp.
A fumble may be legally recovered by any player

Changing your mind in the middle of a pass and then losing control of the ball is a fumble. Fumbles are not, nor have they ever been limited to losing control of the ball right after stopping your dribble as you insist.

And just to make sure you understand your limited grasp of the English language has prevented you from understanding this rule your entire officiating career, please try on the following case book plays, which in no way fit into your opinion of what a fumble is.

After ending a dribble, A1 leaves the playing court to attempt a try for goal. While airborne, A1 fumbles the ball and:

1. Recovers the fumble while airborne, returns to the floor, and dribbles the ball or
2. Recovers the fumble after returning to the floor and then dribbles the ball.

Ruling: Violation in both 1 and 2. (Next sentence is key, read carefully) A1 is permitted to recover the ball but after recovering the ball is not allowed to start another dribble. If A1 had not previously dribbled the ball, and while airborne fumbled and recovered the ball, he is permitted to start a dribble.


Go ahead and continue not to reward bad offense or penalize good defense, just realize you are doing so based on your personal feelings and opinions and have no rules backing whatsoever.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by johnny d

A fumble may be legally recovered by any player

There is (at least) one exception to that, I think.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

There is (at least) one exception to that, I think.

Found it.

SITUATION 1: A1 is an airborne shooter preparing to release the ball on a shot attempt. Instead of releasing the ball on the try, A1 fumbles the ball (while still in the air) and drops it. A1 then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball. RULING: Traveling violation. While airborne the bail must be released for a try or pass. (4-43-3a; 9-4)

[Dad]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Found it.

SITUATION 1: A1 is an airborne shooter preparing to release the ball on a shot attempt. Instead of releasing the ball on the try, A1 fumbles the ball (while still in the air) and drops it. A1 then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball. RULING: Traveling violation. While airborne the bail must be released for a try or pass. (4-43-3a; 9-4)

I really thought there was a case study at some point that had an airborne player fumble a ball, recover it, and the ruling was no violation. On vacation for a while, but I'll try to find it when I'm back in town.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Found it.

SITUATION 1: A1 is an airborne shooter preparing to release the ball on a shot attempt. Instead of releasing the ball on the try, A1 fumbles the ball (while still in the air) and drops it. A1 then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball. RULING: Traveling violation. While airborne the bail must be released for a try or pass. (4-43-3a; 9-4)

NCAA says the opposite in AR 76. Player can recover the ball. Also, had the shooter not dribbled previously, he could have started a dribble after recovering the ball. Whether he regained control of it while airborne or after he lands.

I don't think the play you cited is in case book…Was it at one time or is it an old interp.? thx