![]() |
|
|||
Quote:
(the case play uses word "position" not "spot" as in the rules.) Maybe part of the differences in opinion result from NCAA and iaabo saying player on ground is not in legal guarding position. The player on the ground isnt "trying" to guard but the fact is his body prevents the offensive player from going somewhere, whether he means it or not. I dont think lying on the ground is a legal position. As I said earlier, I can envision lying down being incidental at times. However, not when the ball is involved. Again, why are they worried about protecting the player who has fallen down? The effect of that is to penalize the player dribbling in a legal postion etc. The rules all assume players are standing and we know game is played standing.... |
|
|||
Quote:
Once a player is laying on the floor, they are no longer moving, but there are other considerations. Consider a defender, on his/her feet, that tries to cut off a drive without facing the opponent. If that player gets into the path just before contact with two feet down but without ever facing and there is an immediate collision, we call that a block. If the player was just "there" and had been "there" then we don't. So, we're applying some amount of time/distance to getting to a spot legally. I think that screening rules apply. Although we typically think of screening in the context of the offensive team, screening rules don't specify offense or defense. A stationary player who doesn't meet LGP requirements (and doesn't need the LGP status) is screening and must meet those requirements. Thus, such a player must meet the time/distance requirements laid out in the screening rules.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
|
|||
Quote:
Ps. I'm being made to go to the mall soon so I will be out of commission..ugh Last edited by BigCat; Sun Dec 20, 2015 at 01:26pm. |
|
|||
I am just suggesting that for a player to be able to move into a "spot" and have right to that spot, they must, at a minimum, meet the time/distance requirements of screening, otherwise, the screening rules wouldn't make any sense. They might need LGP in some circumstances. Extending that concept, even if it doesn't meet the letter of the definition, to a player laying on the floor only makes sense if such a player is to ever be considered to be in a legal position.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
|
|||
Devil's Advocate ...
Quote:
I don't think lying on the ground is a legal position . What if the fallen player has two feet in contact with the ground and his torso is facing the opponent? I really appreciate the effort that esteemed Forum members have put into the replies in this thread, and, as a loyal 35 year IAABO member, I would like IAABO to be right for a change, but the NFHS (no block) interpretation was around for almost ten years, and since then there has been no significant change in the rules regarding this situation nor has there been a replacement casebook situation interpreting this as a block. I'm not being stubborn guys, I'm playing the Devil's advocate.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 12:26am. |
|
|||
Fallen, Not Falling ...
Quote:
4-23-2: To obtain an initial legal guarding position: a. The guard must have both feet touching the playing court. b. The front of the guard’s torso must be facing the opponent.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) |
|
|||
Guarding Or Screening ???
Maybe they do:
4-40 ART. 1 A screen is legal action by a player who, without causing contact, delays or prevents an opponent from reaching a desired position. ART. 2 To establish a legal screening position: a. The screener may face any direction. b. Time and distance are relevant. c. The screener must be stationary, except when both are moving in the same path and the same direction. d. The screener must stay within his/her vertical plane with a stance approximately shoulder width apart. But this situation also definitely meets the NFHS definition of guarding: 4-23-1: Guarding is the act of legally placing the body in the path of an offensive opponent. I think that 4-40-2-D (shoulder width apart) might be the key to the "block" interpretation, but why was this viewed as a guarding situation for over ten years, and then suddenly the NFHS changed it to a screening situation, without any comment, and without any rule change, and without any replacement casebook interpretation?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Dec 20, 2015 at 03:09pm. |
|
|||
Quote:
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
|
|||
Festivus Is Coming (December 23) ...
I hope that you remembered your checkbook, your credit card, your debit card, and all the cash that you could beg, borrow, or steal..
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Dec 20, 2015 at 03:23pm. |
|
|||
Let's Take Another Look At The Video ...
Quote:
Again, I would like to know why an accepted interpretation (no block), for almost ten years (not a one hit wonder), was suddenly changed, without any comment, without any rule change, and without any replacement casebook interpretation? Who died and then who made themselves the Grand Poobah? To paraphrase General Douglas MacArthur: “Old caseplays never die, they just fade away.”
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Dec 21, 2015 at 12:27am. |
|
|||
+1
__________________
in OS I trust |
|
|||
When On The Floor Really Means On The Floor ...
Actually, the coach, after the foul was reported said, "How can that be a blocking foul? He was on the floor".
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16) “I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36) Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Dec 20, 2015 at 04:47pm. |
|
|||
It has to come down to screening principles here. What else is left? If the player falls and is on the floor for ten seconds and the dribbler comes along and trips over him, I've got nothing. (watch where you're going) If the defender trips and falls into the path of the dribbler, who subsequently trips over him, I think that gonna be a block pretty much every time.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum. It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow. Lonesome Dove |
![]() |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|
![]() |
||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Applaud the fallen? | ODJ | Football | 13 | Wed Nov 05, 2014 02:55pm |
Fallen Umpire | soundedlikeastrike | Baseball | 14 | Sun Feb 24, 2008 02:06am |
Pray for our fallen comrade | Indy_Ref | Basketball | 1 | Fri Feb 04, 2005 09:06am |