You're Driving Me Crazy

[Kansas Ref]

Signals: I frequently see refs exhibiting this hand signal in a "1 & 1 FT scenario", 1st FT try is missed and the ball does not contact the rim, but just bounces off the backboard and lands on floor--the T will pop his whistle, then point to the sky and swirl his index finger around in a circular motion.

My partner did this last night and I told him about it at our halftime locker room break. I asked him as politely and measured as I could (because I know that he chaffs at being corrected on things) I asked exactly like this: "hey, I was curious as to why you were using that finger swirl signal on that missed FT when you were in the Trail?" He replied, "this is the signal we all use for missed FT's, everyone does it, don't you?"
I replied: "the signal you are showing is for a basket interference; for a missed FT which does not hit the rim simply use the normal violation signal (open hand held up) and indicate that we are going the other way with ball now".
He replied: "are you sure about that?"
I did not have my NF books with me, so I could not shew him proof; but I did say "I bet you a pizza that it's true". He said "you're on". Looks like we don't ref together again until January. I realize it is prolly a habit he picked up from watching other refs or it could've been a signal that has since been deleted from the NF? At any rate, it's driving me crazy to see certified refs inappropriately exhibiting this signal.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

Signals: I frequently see refs exhibiting this hand signal in a "1 & 1 FT scenario", 1st FT try is missed and the ball does not contact the rim, but just bounces off the backboard and lands on floor--the T will pop his whistle, then point to the sky and swirl his index finger around in a circular motion.

My partner did this last night and I told him about it at our halftime locker room break. I asked him as politely and measured as I could (because I know that he chaffs at being corrected on things) I asked exactly like this: "hey, I was curious as to why you were using that finger swirl signal on that missed FT when you were in the Trail?" He replied, "this is the signal we all use for missed FT's, everyone does it, don't you?"
I replied: "the signal you are exhibiting sir is for a basket interference; for a missed FT which does not hit the rim simply use the normal violation signal (open hand held up) and indicate that we are going the other way with ball now".
He replied: "are you sure about that?"
I did not have my NF books with me, so I could not shew him proof; but I did say "I bet you a pizza that it's true". He said "you're on". Looks like we don't ref together again until January. I realize it is prolly a habit he picked up from watching other refs or it could've been a signal that has since been deleted from the NF. At any rate, it's driving me crazy to see certified refs inappropriately exhibiting this signal.

The "swirl" isn't a signal for ANYTHING.

Find it here: https://www.nfhs.org/media/1015648/b...gnal-chart.pdf

[JohnDorian37]

In California the circular finger in air symbol is used to signal a full reset of the shot clock.

[Kansas Ref]

Wow! looks like refs in Cali are using it for a shot clock re-set; out here in Kansas we don't use shot clock for H/S hoop.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by JohnDorian37

In California the circular finger in air symbol is used to signal a full reset of the shot clock.

Does high school have a partial reset or are all resets full? (I know NBA violations are a reset to 14.)

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by Rich

The "swirl" isn't a signal for ANYTHING.

Find it here: https://www.nfhs.org/media/1015648/b...gnal-chart.pdf

Off topic, but did the signal for indicating free throws change? I could have sworn that there was a signal with hands out to the side indicating the number of free throws. Now it looks more like what you'd expect, but not what I remember being taught.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

I replied: "the signal you are showing is for a basket interference;

He was wrong.

So were you.

(Local instructions to the contrary.)

[JohnDorian37]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Does high school have a partial reset or are all resets full? (I know NBA violations are a reset to 14.)

All resets are full.

The shot clock rules are the same as in NCAA except for a kick/striking with fist violation against the defense. In NCAA after such a violation the shot clock is reset to 15 if it is under 15 (and otherwise not reset). In HS a kick/strike is a full reset.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

He was wrong.

So were you.

(Local instructions to the contrary.)

Bob is correct.

BI mechanic is finger pointing down and then swirled over the other hand making an "O" symbol.

Shot clock reset is finger pointing up and then swirled. NY state resets to 15 below 15 and when I was in California (4 years ago) it was full reset at all times.

On a FT violation where the ball doesn't make contact the rim I usually point to the rim. I may swirl the finger, I don't know, but who cares. If my partner brings THIS up to me I would literally laugh in his/her face. Some mechanics may not be by the book but are used to convey information to the coaches and players.

The more egregious offenses are OVER THE BACK calls and signals. That's 100% wrong by rule and everything.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by JohnDorian37

All resets are full.

The shot clock rules are the same as in NCAA except for a kick/striking with fist violation against the defense. In NCAA after such a violation the shot clock is reset to 15 if it is under 15 (and otherwise not reset). In HS a kick/strike is a full reset.

Thx -- that's what I thought (I'm a BB dad not a coach/ref).

Had a game critical reset last night on a player for a kick jumping in front of a throw in when shot clock was at 3 and game clock at 11. (Fans of the kicker were outraged and adamant that it wasn't a kick (I remain gobsmacked at behavior of parents at JV HS games and what they yell at refs, but I digress . . ). I suspect it was a good call - tough to judge from the stands (and with my own bias) but kid probably was reaching his foot toward where he thought the ball was to be thrown.)

[JohnDorian37]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Thx -- that's what I thought (I'm a BB dad not a coach/ref).

Had a game critical reset last night on a player for a kick jumping in front of a throw in when shot clock was at 3 and game clock at 11. (Fans of the kicker were outraged and adamant that it wasn't a kick (I remain gobsmacked at behavior of parents at JV HS games and what they yell at refs, but I digress . . ). I suspect it was a good call - tough to judge from the stands (and with my own bias) but kid probably was reaching his foot toward where he thought the ball was to be thrown.)

Hard to imagine a scenario in which a throw-in hits the leg/foot of a player defending the throw-in and we don't have a kick violation. Maybe if the thrower is trying a bounce pass between the defender's legs? Or maybe the thrower intentionally throws the ball at the defender's foot/leg thinking that will earn a shot clock reset?

[BEAREF]

Originally Posted by deecee

Bob is correct.

BI mechanic is finger pointing down and then swirled over the other hand making an "O" symbol.

Shot clock reset is finger pointing up and then swirled. NY state resets to 15 below 15 and when I was in California (4 years ago) it was full reset at all times.

On a FT violation where the ball doesn't make contact the rim I usually point to the rim. I may swirl the finger, I don't know, but who cares. If my partner brings THIS up to me I would literally laugh in his/her face. Some mechanics may not be by the book but are used to convey information to the coaches and players.

The more egregious offenses are OVER THE BACK calls and signals. That's 100% wrong by rule and everything.

Originally Posted by Rich View Post
The "swirl" isn't a signal for ANYTHING.

Find it here: https://www.nfhs.org/media/1015648/b...gnal-chart.pdf

according to this chart there is no signal for basket interference or goaltendind...so how can he be wrong?

[deecee]

This is the signal



It may not be in the HS approved signal chart but we have BI in the rule book so let's just adopt what the signal is so we have one. I don't know why they haven't added it but I remember seeing it, and now I have to go get my book from the car, in this years iaabo rule book we get. I may be wrong, probably am.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BEAREF

Originally Posted by Rich View Post
The "swirl" isn't a signal for ANYTHING.

Find it here: https://www.nfhs.org/media/1015648/b...gnal-chart.pdf

according to this chart there is no signal for basket interference or goaltendind...so how can he be wrong?

I was wishing him luck in finding it.

I see the "toilet bowl swirl" signal's been posted, too. That's one of my favs, right up with the one-handed creeping death I saw used in my daughter's 5th grade game last week.

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

Signals: I frequently see refs exhibiting this hand signal in a "1 & 1 FT scenario", 1st FT try is missed and the ball does not contact the rim, but just bounces off the backboard and lands on floor--the T will pop his whistle, then point to the sky and swirl his index finger around in a circular motion.

My partner did this last night and I told him about it at our halftime locker room break. I asked him as politely and measured as I could (because I know that he chaffs at being corrected on things) I asked exactly like this: "hey, I was curious as to why you were using that finger swirl signal on that missed FT when you were in the Trail?" He replied, "this is the signal we all use for missed FT's, everyone does it, don't you?"
I replied: "the signal you are showing is for a basket interference; for a missed FT which does not hit the rim simply use the normal violation signal (open hand held up) and indicate that we are going the other way with ball now".
He replied: "are you sure about that?"
I did not have my NF books with me, so I could not shew him proof; but I did say "I bet you a pizza that it's true". He said "you're on". Looks like we don't ref together again until January. I realize it is prolly a habit he picked up from watching other refs or it could've been a signal that has since been deleted from the NF? At any rate, it's driving me crazy to see certified refs inappropriately exhibiting this signal.

Maybe its just me...but if this was the most egregious error made by your partner in the entire game you had one hell of a partner and probably had a good game.