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Old Thu Nov 19, 2015, 09:00pm
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Unconscious player RTP

I'm going to run this by you guys as I want to make certain that I properly understand the NFHS rule, not individual state regulations, for the following:

===============================
True or False

A player determined to be unconscious may not return to play unless written authorization is provided by physician.
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Old Thu Nov 19, 2015, 09:10pm
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The word "unconscious" is not in the rule or case book. It may be in the manual but I'm not running upstairs to pull it out my bag at the moment.

What is in the book is concussion. It doesn't say it has to be written authorization, just clearance from medical personnel. And it is actually not our responsibility to ensure it happens, that falls entirely on the coach.

2.8.5 SITUATION:

A1 and B1 hit heads in diving for a loose ball and both appear injured. However, A1 is immediately removed from the game by the officials as he/she is exhibiting signs consistent with a concussion. Later in the game, A1 reports to the scorer's table to reenter the contest.

RULING: The rules permit A1 to return to the game once he/she has been cleared by an appropriate health-care professional. The responsibility for obtaining that clearance rests with the coach/school, and need not be verified by the officials (unless state procedures require verification). If A1 appears at the scorer's table to reenter the game, the officials shall assume the coach/school followed the appropriate return-to-play procedures and A1 is eligible to participate.
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Last edited by Raymond; Thu Nov 19, 2015 at 11:03pm.
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Old Thu Nov 19, 2015, 09:13pm
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It should be true but it is false. The player must be cleared by an appropriate health care provider. Doesn't say physician or a writing in rules. The nfhs guidelines say a player who loses consciousness should not return to play.
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Old Thu Nov 19, 2015, 09:21pm
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Im happy in NY state the kid is done for the contest no ifs ands or buts.
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Old Thu Nov 19, 2015, 10:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
What is in the book is concussion. It doesn't say it has to be written authorization, just clearance from medical personnel. And it is actually not are responsibility to ensure it happens, that falls entirely on the coach.
Agreed with this, with the slight change that it's something like "signs consistent with a concussion" or "concussion-like-symptoms" (and I do recognize that the case play you included had that in it).
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Old Thu Nov 19, 2015, 10:17pm
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It is OUR responsibility to remove a player who shows signs and symptoms of a concussion. Yet when the player comes back to the table we are supposed to assume that the player has been approved to resume play by appropriate health care provider.

No "appropriate health care provider" would allow a kid who was unconscious to return. If the coach sends him back to the table I will allow him to walk on the floor. then i will determine he shows signs and symptoms of a concussion and send him out again... and tell the coach that the school and the "appropriate health care provider" dont have enough insurance if the player falls on his head again.
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Old Thu Nov 19, 2015, 11:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
It is OUR responsibility to remove a player who shows signs and symptoms of a concussion. Yet when the player comes back to the table we are supposed to assume that the player has been approved to resume play by appropriate health care provider.

No "appropriate health care provider" would allow a kid who was unconscious to return. If the coach sends him back to the table I will allow him to walk on the floor. then i will determine he shows signs and symptoms of a concussion and send him out again... and tell the coach that the school and the "appropriate health care provider" dont have enough insurance if the player falls on his head again.
If I am ever faced with the situation, I will have it annotated in the book that the coach is responsible for the player reentering the game. I almost had to do that last year as a coach was reluctant to even remove this player from the game in the first place it seemed like he was going to have him return at some point.

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Old Fri Nov 20, 2015, 01:02am
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Guys,
Can we stay focused and just answer the NFHS question please?
I am interested how you would answer the question on a test.
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Old Fri Nov 20, 2015, 07:18am
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Unconscious Player ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
True or False: A player determined to be unconscious may not return to play unless written authorization is provided by physician.
Back in 2009-10: True.

NFHS 2009-10 2-8-5: The officials shall determine when a player is apparently unconscious. the player may not return to play in the game without written authorization from a physician (MD/DO).

In 2010-11, the rule was changed to its present form:

NFHS 2015-16 2-8-5: The officials shall immediately remove a player from the game who exhibits signs, symptoms or behaviors consistent with a concussion as in 3-3-8.

NFHS 2015-16 3-3-8: Any player who exhibits signs, symptoms or behaviors consistent with a concussion (such as loss of consciousness, headache, dizziness, confusion, or balance problems) shall be immediately removed from the game and shall not return to play until cleared by an appropriate health care professional.

The answer in 2015-16: False (it doesn't have to be a physician, and it doesn't have to be a written authorization).
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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 07:53pm.
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Old Fri Nov 20, 2015, 08:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Guys,
Can we stay focused and just answer the NFHS question please?
I am interested how you would answer the question on a test.
Tough for me to be any more clear than what I had in post 3. "It should be true but it IS false.....doesnt say physician or a writing in the rules."

I'll try harder next time....
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Old Fri Nov 20, 2015, 09:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
Guys,
Can we stay focused and just answer the NFHS question please?
I am interested how you would answer the question on a test.
I already did that, and posted a citation.
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Old Fri Nov 20, 2015, 04:30pm
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Appropriate Health Care Professionals ???

In Connecticut, all interscholastic coaches, middle school, through high school, including assistant coaches, and "volunteer" coaches, for all sports, get mandatory concussion training, and are, thus, considered appropriate health care professionals.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 04:39pm.
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Old Fri Nov 20, 2015, 04:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
In Connecticut all interscholastic coaches, middle school, through high school, including assistant coaches, and "volunteer" coaches, for all sports, get mandatory concussion training, and are, thus, considered appropriate health care professionals.
They can't be serious. Wow.
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Old Fri Nov 20, 2015, 04:48pm
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This is a typical sitch wherein "common-sense" has collided with a "verbatim" reading of the NF. Of course any "reasonable person" would not allow A1 to re-enter the game; however, if coach wants his best player in--who had previously been hearing only crickets chirping and eyes have rolled in back of head after getting an elbow to his head's temple--back in the game. Then calls over a score table woman who is also the school nurse/cafeteria manager/detention hall monitor [i.e., read as "quasi healthcare pro"] then gets an "all clear OK" from her--then the refs cannot disallow A1 from re-entering the contest.
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Old Fri Nov 20, 2015, 04:57pm
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Dodged A Bullet ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
They can't be serious.
Hey. It could have been worse.

The State of Connecticut legislature considered a law to get sports officials trained in dealing with concussions, but our state interscholastic sports governing body, that includes an officials organization component, lobbied on behalf of officials keep us out of the process. Thankfully, the legislators followed the advice of the state interscholastic sports governing body. Eventually, the State legislature decided to make annual concussion training, along with first aid, CPR , etc., mandatory for coaches to be licensed.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Nov 20, 2015 at 05:00pm.
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