Huddling Prior to a Free Throw

[Refhoop]

Last night's scrimmage, we had a coach claim: "15 years, I've never heard players can't huddle..."
Post scrimmage: I found the rule and showed it to him, just to confirm that most coaches don't read rule books... JK.
Regarding "allowing the game to develop into an actionless contest". (I take this to mean an unsportsmanlike delay of game)
Rule 10-1-5 d:"Contact with the free thrower or a huddle of two or more players in the lane by either team prior to a free throw following any team warning for delay."

1. Wasn't this a POE a few years back?
2. Do you all have this as an issue in your areas, if so how do you handle it?
3. Would a correct interpretation of this rule be: Huddle if you dare; but if you get a warning for huddling or any other warning: your next huddle will cost you a "T".

Also, why is contact with the free thrower in there?

[bob jenkins]

If they are ready to go when you are, or if they "break up" when you ask, then let it go.

It's only if there is really a delay.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

...
Also, why is contact with the free thrower in there?

For the daps and high-fives that sometimes cause the delay.

Just make your presence felt if you feel it's becoming a problem.

[Kansas Ref]

All of this huddling up prior to a FT [and after a FT] is largely driven by what players see on TV games. I recall this activity first became "fashionable" to do by Duke teams of the 1990's (or maybe other less renown teams were doing it and it only became apparent since Duke is on TV so much). At any rate, your rules knowledge is accurate in this area--as you've stated in your post: event #1 = warning for DOG, event#2 = cup of T.

Regarding contact on the FT'er (A1): most coaches hold that the FT'er is in a vulnerable position while in the follow-thru part of a FT try--the risk of injury is great when the arms are extended upward and you have (B1) forcefully bumping into the groin of A1 in a box out attempt. A1 has no means of protecting self --so we call a common foul if such contact occurs prior to ball hitting the ring.

[SC Official]

Don't go looking for trouble.

"Line it up (guys/players)" is all that is needed 99% of the time.

[deecee]

Unless they are really causing delay don't look for trouble. Remind them to keep moving, break up, etc. But unless egregious this is not a T that you want to give, especially the higher you move up.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

...

Regarding contact on the FT'er (A1): most coaches hold that the FT'er is in a vulnerable position while in the follow-thru part of a FT try--the risk of injury is great when the arms are extended upward and you have (B1) forcefully bumping into the groin of A1 in a box out attempt. A1 has no means of protecting self --so we call a common foul if such contact occurs prior to ball hitting the ring.

Not contact by the defense, contact by teammates as in 10-1-5, and as you described in the first part of your response.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

Last night's scrimmage, we had a coach claim: "15 years, I've never heard players can't huddle..."
Post scrimmage: I found the rule and showed it to him, just to confirm that most coaches don't read rule books... JK.
Regarding "allowing the game to develop into an actionless contest". (I take this to mean an unsportsmanlike delay of game)
Rule 10-1-5 d:"Contact with the free thrower or a huddle of two or more players in the lane by either team prior to a free throw following any team warning for delay."

1. Wasn't this a POE a few years back?
2. Do you all have this as an issue in your areas, if so how do you handle it?
3. Would a correct interpretation of this rule be: Huddle if you dare; but if you get a warning for huddling or any other warning: your next huddle will cost you a "T".

Also, why is contact with the free thrower in there?

All I will say is do not get me started on this FT horse manure that has been going on since before the rule was adopted.

MTD, Sr.

[BatteryPowered]

I have only had this become a problem once...and it was a rec league game (11th grade boys). I broke them up twice when I was ready. When, at the next dead ball, the coach said "That lane meeting is team building...I encourage it." I told him by rule is was not allowed and they needed to keep it short. Next FT they did it again and when I was ready they weren't. I had the book record a delay warning. Coach went nuts and I T'd him. When he asked "What was that for?" I said "I explained the huddle situation, you made a choice." Problem went away and every time I had that team after that the only huddle was only a second or two long.

I believe in picking my battles but I explained the rule and offered to "look the other way" if they kept it very short. Oh well...life is about the choices we make and the consequence that result.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Not contact by the defense, contact by teammates as in 10-1-5, and as you described in the first part of your response.

I believe there is a case play (or at least there used to be) in which the FTer was talking to the coach at the sideline when the administering official was ready to put the ball at the FTer's disposal. I believe that's another example of "contact with the FTer," and one in which no warning for delay is initially given. But truth be told, I've never fully understood what "contact with the FTer" means, either. It is not very well explained.

Having said all of that, I agree with many other posters that this delay and/or technical should be avoided if at all possible. Preventative officiating. Don't complicate things or stir the pot. If it's absurd and you ask them twice and they're blowing you off, then ok. But in 7+ years I've never seen that.


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[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

I believe there is a case play (or at least there used to be) in which the FTer was talking to the coach at the sideline when the administering official was ready to put the ball at the FTer's disposal. I believe that's another example of "contact with the FTer," and one in which no warning for delay is initially given.

The OP is about 10-1-5(d) (Team Tech).

Your situation is about 10-3-5(c) (Player Tech).

Not the same.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The OP is about 10-1-5(d) (Team Tech).



Your situation is about 10-3-5(c) (Player Tech).



Not the same.

You're right. Good catch, thanks.


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[Refhoop]

I have never gone looking for this, but it was an intra-squad scrimmage where the assistants were coaching and the head coach is in the background watching. I happen to be watching the officials work - near court side.
Free throw administering official said: break it up guys, which is what prompted the assistant coach to ask: "why can't they huddle?" Trail says to assistant: I'm about 90% sure they can't, but I'll check the rule for you... pretty lightheartedly. The head coach (in the background) blurts out: "well we're going to huddle anyway!". To which I thought; ok tough guy - Now I'll go look up the rule.
Generally, I agree with all of you; no problem... provided it doesn't become a competition for who can occupy the lane first for the huddle. Then two whistle blast and a strong "line em up!" should do it.
Just wanted some veteran input!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

I recall this activity first became "fashionable" to do by Duke teams of the 1990's.

North Carolina. Dean Smith.