This Just Seemed Odd...from rule aficionado/lurker

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by john5396

By the letter of the rules, the ump in your game was correct. Only specific calls from the umpire make the ball dead, like "Time", "Foul", "Balk (NFHS)". Other communications like "strike", "ball", "out", Fair (pointing not verbal), and many others do not create a time out.

That said as others have indicated since "everyone" had it wrong, the better course given the level of play, would be for the umpire would probably have been to call "Time" and put the players back where they belong.

I agree with your result but not your reasoning. The umpire crossed the line when he told the defense what to do. HE put the offense in jeopardy. He must rectify that. If the ball is going to remain live, he cannot influence play by telling the defense not to leave the field.

(And heck, he also put the defense in jeopardy by telling the offense it was still live - had events after him butting in evolved differently, his announcement to each team what they should do during a live ball could have aided the offense instead...)

Once he told EITHER team what to do during a live ball, he has to kill it. At ANY level.

[More Cowbell]

MDL...I was wondering the same thing...if the runner, on the way to the dugout happened to step on home (on purpose or not), would he have kept to his guns and allowed the run? My gut feeling is no..it was the home team that made the put out, with much yelling "tag him, tag him"...and the kid at third was the go ahead run..with no outs.

To me, this is much different than "they forgot how many outs there were" and left the field or the like. There was certain and clear direction, and the ump later said "I told both sides we were batting the line up."

(BTW the next kid up got a single that would have scored the kid at third...and we lost 6-5 on two errors in the bottom half of the inning...not germane to the post, but that's just how the baseball gods work sometimes.)

Again, thanks for the perspective.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by More Cowbell

To me, this is much different than "they forgot how many outs there were" and left the field or the like.

To me, it's identical to that. Meaning - in NEITHER case should the umpire be speaking to influence play - and if they do, they need to kill it to do so. (If "they forgot how many outs there were", umpire should not be yelling, "Hey, there are only 2 outs everyone" unless play has stopped on its own.)

[More Cowbell]

MDL,
Agreed...both cases ump should be mum; I meant that the context was different. Kids forgetting how many outs is different than both teams thinking one set of rules were in play. I wouldn't have a problem "stealing" a run because defense forgot the outs; I would not want a run that was scored because of confusion and misunderstanding.

(Does that make sense?) I think this forum should be required reading for all coaches, and parents for that matter. I enjoy the spirited debate you guys get into, and I have learned tons in several sports.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I agree with your result but not your reasoning. The umpire crossed the line when he told the defense what to do. HE put the offense in jeopardy. He must rectify that. If the ball is going to remain live, he cannot influence play by telling the defense not to leave the field.

(And heck, he also put the defense in jeopardy by telling the offense it was still live - had events after him butting in evolved differently, his announcement to each team what they should do during a live ball could have aided the offense instead...)

Once he told EITHER team what to do during a live ball, he has to kill it. At ANY level.

I didn't read in the OP that the umpire told the defense what to do. To me, what he did is no different than when an umpire says, "That's only two outs!" while teams are erroneously changing sides. Or are you suggesting we shouldn't say anything in those situations?

Now, this being a preseason game, which the OP didn't mention until a subsequent post, yeah it should be rectified. But for a regular season game involving two competitive teams, I still believe the base coach should be responsible for not knowing the rules.

[Robert Goodman]

This seems to be a FAQ here that transcends the type of sport being officiated. Several times in different sections someone has raised the question of what happens when opposing competitors each misconceive the situation and an official is not quick to rectify it or prevent error, or the competitors don't grasp what the official is signaling.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

when an umpire says, "That's only two outs!" while teams are erroneously changing sides. Or are you suggesting we shouldn't say anything in those situations?

Yes. At least not if there's a possibility of action happening.

[DG]

Last pre-season game and coach gets pretty upset? Really?

Put everything back to where it was immediately prior to the misunderstanding and tell the coach to calm down or sit down.