WS obstruction

[Fan10]

Suppose that the throw from LF to home beats the runner by 20 feet. The runner then gets caught in a run down and after a few throws back and forth, he is tagged out in a rundown.

We know that he would not have scored, so an award of home is not an option. If you are protecting him to 3B, is he now out because he advanced past the base to which he was entitled?

[hog]

Going back to the OP. I, too, noticed that the runner never touched home plate. However, no appeal was ever made. Maybe it's because the PU botched the mechanics and called him safe, rather than calling time and awarding the base.

Originally Posted by hog

Maybe it's because the PU botched the mechanics and called him safe, rather than calling time and awarding the base.

Getting the call right and selling it are more important than using the correct mechanics. They way Demuth and Joyce communicated and sold the call was excellent and left no mistake as to what their call was.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Getting the call right and selling it are more important than using the correct mechanics. They way Demuth and Joyce communicated and sold the call was excellent and left no mistake as to what their call was.

It worked out ok in this case, but if Joyce had only protected the runner to 3rd base, DeMuth's improper 'safe' mechanic would not have helped at all.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

It worked out ok in this case, but if Joyce had only protected the runner to 3rd base, DeMuth's improper 'safe' mechanic would not have helped at all.

Since both umpires called obstruction and it's a play coming to DeMuth's base (plate), I am perfectly comfortable with DeMuth deciding the effect of the obstruction.

DeMuth's mechanic, IMO, is far better than any book mechanic. It was clear, concise, and explained the reason for the safe decision IMMEDIATELY.

[yankeesfan]

Pease answer with a yes or no only. Was this an "automatic" award of home plate in that situation?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan

Pease answer with a yes or no only. Was this an "automatic" award of home plate in that situation?

No.

Don't like the answer you've already been given?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by yankeesfan

Pease answer with a yes or no only. Was this an "automatic" award of home plate in that situation?

As others have indicated, No.

An example of obstruction where home would be "automatically" awarded is if the runner was obstructed while a play is being made upon him between third and home, such as on a rundown. That's obstruction under rule 7.08a. Under 7.08b where obstruction occurs while no play is being made, nothing is automatic.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Rich

Since both umpires called obstruction and it's a play coming to DeMuth's base (plate), I am perfectly comfortable with DeMuth deciding the effect of the obstruction.

DeMuth's mechanic, IMO, is far better than any book mechanic. It was clear, concise, and explained the reason for the safe decision IMMEDIATELY.

If both umpires had made the OBS call, I would agree with you (although I think it would be just as clear if DeMuth had called time when the tag was applied and awarded the plate on the OBS). But Hirschbeck's remarks at the press conference indicated (in so many words) it was Joyce's call and DeMuth was mirroring it.

Assuming that is the case (and I know that is a critical assumption), DeMuth awarded a base for a violation he did not call. What if Joyce judged that the runner would be out at the plate absent the OBS? As Bob has said, you don't have to change the WS play much to get there.

[Adam]

Just trying to imagine the outcry if they hadn't called it.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

If both umpires had made the OBS call, I would agree with you (although I think it would be just as clear if DeMuth had called time when the tag was applied and awarded the plate on the OBS). But Hirschbeck's remarks at the press conference indicated (in so many words) it was Joyce's call and DeMuth was mirroring it.

Assuming that is the case (and I know that is a critical assumption), DeMuth awarded a base for a violation he did not call. What if Joyce judged that the runner would be out at the plate absent the OBS? As Bob has said, you don't have to change the WS play much to get there.

As the plate umpire with everything in front of me, I'm making that decision pretty much right away as long as I know there's obstruction involved.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Assuming that is the case (and I know that is a critical assumption), DeMuth awarded a base for a violation he did not call. What if Joyce judged that the runner would be out at the plate absent the OBS? As Bob has said, you don't have to change the WS play much to get there.

Sooo, you're the PU, and you see your U2 partner rule OBS on R1 as R1 heads for second on a hit-n-run in the gap. As play continues, there's a throw to home to make a play on R1 attempting to score, and in the meantime, the BR rounds second and heads for third. Are you suggesting that U2 should take his eyes off the BR and potentially miss the touch of second base to judge on the play at R1 at home, and then make the long-distance call?

One reason why umpires point and announce the obstruction violation is to let other partners know what's going on. If I see my partner do that, I'm tracking the hindered runner and making the call at my base. And if I was the umpire making the obstruction call, I would intervene only if I see my partner rule the runner out on a close play.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Assuming that is the case (and I know that is a critical assumption), DeMuth awarded a base for a violation he did not call. What if Joyce judged that the runner would be out at the plate absent the OBS? As Bob has said, you don't have to change the WS play much to get there.

I'm thinking if Demuth is calling obstruction, why isn't he killing the play, and awarding home? He should have just made the call at home, and Joyce would be the one awarding the plate to Craig. I guess he just got caught up in the excitement.

Wasn't it Demuth working the plate at the All Star game in St. Louis, and with a hard hit foul ball down the left field line, he had his hands up touching his shoulders like a 20 second time out in the NBA? The call wasn't even his to make in the first place, much less use a basketball mechanic.

[Dave Reed]

Originally Posted by hog

Going back to the OP. I, too, noticed that the runner never touched home plate. However, no appeal was ever made. Maybe it's because the PU botched the mechanics and called him safe, rather than calling time and awarding the base.

I think his right foot touches the plate or at least comes close enough so that a viewer of the video can't tell. See 1:24 and 1:58 of the video linked in the OP. DeMuth may have judged that he did touch the plate just after the tag.

Either way, the runner has an indefinite amount of time to reach and touch the plate, since it is an award, and I haven't seen any videos that show whether the runner touched the plate in the following scrum.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Fan10

Suppose that the throw from LF to home beats the runner by 20 feet. The runner then gets caught in a run down and after a few throws back and forth, he is tagged out in a rundown.

We know that he would not have scored, so an award of home is not an option. If you are protecting him to 3B, is he now out because he advanced past the base to which he was entitled?

In your play, the out would stand -- just as it would if he was thrown out by 20 feet and kept going for home.

If the obstruction occurred while a play was being made on the runner, then the ball would have been dead immediately and any awards made -- with a minimum of 1 base to the obstructed runner.

This was about as easy as it gets, imo.

(And let me add that the HS rule is different. Most umpires know that, but we have several fans reading this.)