LLWS - Championship

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Rich

"Ball. No, he didn't go."

I say this every time I have a check swing where I judge the batter didn't offer. Means nothing other than I thought he didn't go. Isn't meant to give a message to anyone other than that.

I was recently taught to not say anything but "Ball." If you say something afterward like, "He didn't go," or "No he didn't," then you're definitively stating that you saw no swing, and you shouldn't subsequently go for help when asked.

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I was recently taught to not say anything but "Ball." If you say something afterward like, "He didn't go," or "No he didn't," then you're definitively stating that you saw no swing, and you shouldn't subsequently go for help when asked.

Correct, I am definitively stating that I saw no swing, because I didn't. You first need to judge the pitch as it pertains to the zone (you have a ball), and then you need to determine if he swung (he didn't). Why hide the fact that you think he didn't go? If U1/U3 turn it over and say he did, no big deal.

Anyways, NCAA 3.6.f says get help when they ask, so I'm asking if they're asking. "ball, no he didn't" - "can you check?" - "Bob, did he go?" - "yes he did" - "ok we have a 2-2 count here" -- simple.

If I didn't definitively know, I'd check with a base umpire right away.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by briancurtin

Correct, I am definitively stating that I saw no swing, because I didn't. You first need to judge the pitch as it pertains to the zone (you have a ball), and then you need to determine if he swung (he didn't). Why hide the fact that you think he didn't go? If U1/U3 turn it over and say he did, no big deal.

Anyways, NCAA 3.6.f says get help when they ask, so I'm asking if they're asking. "ball, no he didn't" - "can you check?" - "Bob, did he go?" - "yes he did" - "ok we have a 2-2 count here" -- simple.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that it shouldn't be a big deal. It's just what I've been recently told.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I was recently taught to not say anything but "Ball." If you say something afterward like, "He didn't go," or "No he didn't," then you're definitively stating that you saw no swing, and you shouldn't subsequently go for help when asked.

This is not the professional teaching, unless it changed recently.

And besides, in OBR/NCAA you *must* go for help when asked, regardless of what you say on the check swing.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Rich

And besides, in OBR/NCAA you *must* go for help when asked, regardless of what you say on the check swing.

And yet I sometimes see in MLB games where the PU won't go to a partner after the catcher asks. What is taught and what is practiced isn't always the same.

It just made sense to me when I heard it. If you must go for help when asked, then don't bother with anything more than "Ball" so that you're not opening the door to potential comments over your judgment. And it falls in line with the philosophy of one umpire not overruling another. You say, "No he didn't," and then your partner says, "Yes, he did," just sounds like two siblings pointing fingers over a broken vase.