Batter interference?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Just to make sure I'm clear. I thought if you knew a rule was misapplied on the field you should get with your partner and correct it. However, if you are not certain of what your partner saw and thus whether or not a rule was misapplied than you should do nothing.

Speaking strictly LL, which is the basis of the OP, here is what is written in the LL Rules Instruction Manual under rule 9.02(c):

"Keep in mind that the umpire who has made the rules decision is the only one who may initiate the discussion. Regardless of the experience or knowledge, no other umpire may force the discussion or overrule the decision. If a manager has a concern with a rules decision, he/she must take his/her case to the umpire who made the decision."

So you don't correct your partner on your own. You wait until he comes to you, either after a manager questions the call, or after a protest is lodged.

Again, that's what LL teaches. Other organizations may allow for another umpire to fix a misapplied rule. Maybe LL wants it this way because it has a well-defined process for dealing with protests.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Speaking strictly LL, which is the basis of the OP, here is what is written in the LL Rules Instruction Manual under rule 9.02(c):

"Keep in mind that the umpire who has made the rules decision is the only one who may initiate the discussion. Regardless of the experience or knowledge, no other umpire may force the discussion or overrule the decision. If a manager has a concern with a rules decision, he/she must take his/her case to the umpire who made the decision."

So you don't correct your partner on your own. You wait until he comes to you, either after a manager questions the call, or after a protest is lodged.

Again, that's what LL teaches. Other organizations may allow for another umpire to fix a misapplied rule. Maybe LL wants it this way because it has a well-defined process for dealing with protests.

I agree that is the way it usually is handled but there a few situations that I wonder about. One example is your PU gives 2 bases on a pitched ball going out of play due to a brain fart. Nobody questions it and your PU doesn't pick up your "I got something signal". Do you leave it alone. Later in the game you might have to award one base on a pickoff out of play and be questioned on it.
I do know that Wendelstedt teaches that if your partner calls IFF when it's not correct by rule that you should immediately call and signal that there is no IFF.

[RPatrino]

I feel that all umpires on the field are equally responsible for trying to avoid misapplications of rules and protests.

[PeteBooth]

Agreed if the "other" umpires are 150% certain that a rule was misapplied.

I give benefit of doubt to my partner making the call. Perhaps he saw something different then me.

Let's takes umpjm's simple example of a pitched ball going out of play and the PU awards 2 bases.

I step in and say no he only gets one base. We then converse and my partner says "Pete F2 kicked the ball into DBT while chasing the errant pitch which is the reason I awarded 2 bases".

Now we as a group look like s**t and give the appearance we do not know what the h**l we are doing. In addition your partner will give you that look like "stay out of my business unless I ask for your help" Our credibility will be questioned the remainder of the game.

Let the manager do his job if he doesn't like or agree with a rule interp.

In a nusthell, unless it's a "no brainer" the other umpires should not say or do anything unless the manager lodges a protest or the umpire who made the call requests assistance.

Pete Booth

[RPatrino]

Pete, I don't mean that you change your partners call, uninvited or unsolicited. The only time I would see doing that is if your partner doesn't see the ball on the ground on a tag play and you do.

I don't have a problem, if I have made an error applying a rule, if my partner comes to me to discuss it.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

The only time I would see doing that is if your partner doesn't see the ball on the ground on a tag play and you do.

You STILL don't do it in this case.

[PeteBooth]

Even if you do not ask him to?

To me this is no different then the BU making a call at first base on a swipe tag / pulled foot. You as PU clearly see that F3's foot is off the bag but your partner calls him out. Unless your partner comes to you for assistance, you keep quiet.

Pete Booth

[lawump]

Originally Posted by PeteBooth

Even if you do not ask him to?

To me this is no different then the BU making a call at first base on a swipe tag / pulled foot. You as PU clearly see that F3's foot is off the bag but your partner calls him out. Unless your partner comes to you for assistance, you keep quiet.

Pete Booth

I am at the point in my career where I am going to interject myself in my partner's play if I am 150% certain a RULE has been kicked. [With that said, it does not happen very often.] Admittedly, part of the reason is that almost every high school and American Legion game I umpire, I am the crew chief and "most experienced" (note I did not say "oldest!") member of the crew.

I'll give two examples (one where my crew chief in MiLB interjected in one of my calls and one where I interjected in my partner's play).

1) MiLB game. R1. Ground ball to F6 on a hit-and-run. F6 sprints to second base in an attempt to retire R1, but I call R1 "safe". (There was no argument, at all, about the "safe" call...R1 was clearly safe.) F6 then threw onto F3 in an attempt to retire the B/R, but the throw went into the stands. I say, "time! You (R1) third base; you (B/R) second base!"

As soon as I finished, my crew chief took a few steps toward me and said, "Matt..." and that was all he had to say. As soon as he said my name I knew I had screwed up. I stood up tall, looked at R1 (who was now on third base) and said, "you score!"

The DT manager came out, and we had a long discussion/explanation. But, to his credit, once he learned the rule (we had to teach him) he did not get ejected.

I am very grateful that my crew chief interjected himself immediately, so that I could correct myself immediately, rather than us "get together" after the play which would have, IMO, given the impression that one umpire was overruling another umpire.

2) Legion with OBR. I'm on the plate and also the CC. R1, R2. Ground ball on the left side of the infield. F5 dives to his left to try to field the ball, but the ball is a good 1 to 2 feet out of his reach. Ball then hits R2. F6 is positioned behind R2 and is in position to easily field the ball and possibly make a play. (Prior to the pitch, F5 was playing off the line and F6 was pinching over into the hole).

There was no doubt that the ball hit R2; the ball clearly hit him and clearly changed directions, significantly. (The ball ended up deflecting into foul territory down the left field line). There was also absolutely no doubt that F6 was in position to field the ball had it not hit R2.

I waited and waited for U3 to call "interference," but he did not. This was a major play at a very critical part of the game. (Close game in late innings.) I decided that it would be much, much easier to kill the play immediately rather than to get the crew together after the play and then have to "reverse" ourselves and call runners back out of the dugout, etc.. So, I stepped out in front of home plate and yelled (and gave the proper mechanics), "time! time! time! That's interference! you're out! You (R1) back to second base, you (B/R) to first base!"

And, yes, I had a heated argument with the OT head coach. (His argument was, first, that it was not interference because it had passed the diving third baseman. But, when I asked, "did you see the shortstop" ready to field the ball, he said "that doesn't matter." So, I then had to explain the exception to the rule to him. Since he didn't like my explanation of the exception, and since he, like most coaches, didn't actually know the rules (so he really couldn't argue rules with me), he switched his argument to "that's not your call," which I expected him to say at some point.)

IMHO, when a coach argues, "that's not your call," it means he really doesn't have anything legitimate further to argue about.

BTW, after the game, U3 said, "thanks, I froze."

(Edited to Add: I should add that after the ball had hit R2 and before I called interference, the DT coaching staff was already screaming "interference". So, no matter what, we were going to have an argument after the play. Furthermore, I knew U3 well enough to know that when the DT head coach would have come out to argue, that U3 would have come to me for help. Of that, I am 150% sure, too. So, when I called "interference," I was already sure that if I did not call interference while the play was still on-going, I was going to have to do it after a "crew huddle" after the play.)

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by umpjim

I agree that is the way it usually is handled but there a few situations that I wonder about. One example is your PU gives 2 bases on a pitched ball going out of play due to a brain fart. Nobody questions it and your PU doesn't pick up your "I got something signal". Do you leave it alone. Later in the game you might have to award one base on a pickoff out of play and be questioned on it.
I do know that Wendelstedt teaches that if your partner calls IFF when it's not correct by rule that you should immediately call and signal that there is no IFF.

I had one person tell me, if you as the base umpire pointed at the ball, the IFF was actually called.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by umpjim

I do know that Wendelstedt teaches that if your partner calls IFF when it's not correct by rule that you should immediately call and signal that there is no IFF.

What's the signal for "No IFF"?

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Publius

What's the signal for "No IFF"?

When it happens I hope you will come up with one. If it does happen, whether you call it off or not, the teams should know its not an IFF and maybe you get less grief if one of you has patented the "no IFF signal". Based on my experience, I will be doing the WTF or Oh shit signal, which nobody will be seeing. I don't think I have a verbal for that yet.