fair or foul

[MD Longhorn]

What happened when the coach protested the incorrect application of rule?

(I also wonder what happened when UIC learned he has an umpire who would EVER say the word "Fair" out loud)

[Robmoz]

How about the opposite situation, U3 signals fair ball and it is clearly foul according to the HP partner (who commented as such after we walked off the field), once play is concluded the 3B coach ask U3 to go for help and U3 says he saw it clearly. Coach now goes to HP and asks him to offer his info to his partner but HP says the call will stand since he will not offer unless asked by U3 who is not going to ask for it. Should HP step up and correct the call if he truly feels U3 kicked it or should the crew just live with U3's call? Granted, U3 could have taken the opportunity to go for help but he chose not to. FYI, this was a 16U championship game ending play. Hell, I was U1 and it sure looked foul from my crappy angle across the diamond, lol.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Robmoz

How about the opposite situation, U3 signals fair ball and it is clearly foul according to the HP partner (who commented as such after we walked off the field), once play is concluded the 3B coach ask U3 to go for help and U3 says he saw it clearly. Coach now goes to HP and asks him to offer his info to his partner but HP says the call will stand since he will not offer unless asked by U3 who is not going to ask for it. Should HP step up and correct the call if he truly feels U3 kicked it or should the crew just live with U3's call? Granted, U3 could have taken the opportunity to go for help but he chose not to. FYI, this was a 16U championship game ending play. Hell, I was U1 and it sure looked foul from my crappy angle across the diamond, lol.

If U3 saw it clearly one way, and PU saw it clearly another way --- who is to say, for sure, that one umpire's judgement is more "correct" than the other umpire's judgement? A call belongs to one umpire - for a reason.

[xtremeump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

What happened when the coach protested the incorrect application of rule?

(I also wonder what happened when UIC learned he has an umpire who would EVER say the word "Fair" out loud)

I would have been ejected...

[Matt]

Originally Posted by xtremeump

Hey Tex, what is the incorrect application of what rule ???

In FED rules, it is not allowed to change a foul ball to fair.

[xtremeump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

What happened when the coach protested the incorrect application of rule?

(I also wonder what happened when UIC learned he has an umpire who would EVER say the word "Fair" out loud)

Never say never, I know it is never said but I had an Umpire that needed to say that's a fair ball in a Varsity ball game. The ball came off the bat over the dish and the F2 hopped up to get it and just threw the ball back to F1. The PU is pointing fair and nothing happened, so he yelled that's a fair ball...

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by xtremeump

Never say never, I know it is never said but I had an Umpire that needed to say that's a fair ball in a Varsity ball game. The ball came off the bat over the dish and the F2 hopped up to get it and just threw the ball back to F1. The PU is pointing fair and nothing happened, so he yelled that's a fair ball...

Then I'll stick with never. He should not have yelled a damn thing. Just stand to the side and point fair. Someone will get it eventually.

[john5396]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Then I'll stick with never. He should not have yelled a damn thing. Just stand to the side and point fair. Someone will get it eventually.

I agree with never, even with the little kids. Had a game years ago working 10-12yr old recreation. My partner was 16 year old kid, he was PU. bases loaded no outs. Pitch hits the knob of the bat and rolls 6 feet fair toward pitcher. No one moves. My partner correctly steps out from behind the plate and points fair. Cathcher walks over and picks up the ball. Coach yells "The ump wants the ball" so the kid walks to my partner who starts walking away from player trying to hand him the ball. Finally a parent yells "RUN". 2 outs and 2 runs later, I still don't know quite what happenned. But it was fun.

[xtremeump]

HTBT

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Then I'll stick with never. He should not have yelled a damn thing. Just stand to the side and point fair. Someone will get it eventually.

He said that's a fair ball... What is the punishment for breaking that rule and managing the game against your rule. I agree HTBT, I did not have a problem in that sitch???:

[RPatrino]

So you yell FAIR and everyone stops, because they don't expect to hear anything but FOUL. How do you handle that?

[xtremeump]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

So you yell FAIR and everyone stops, because they don't expect to hear anything but FOUL. How do you handle that?

F1 had the ball BR was in the batters box PU was standing on the third baseline pointing fair and no one is doing anything. You tell me how to handle it ??? I know it never happens, but this play did happen. Please tell me what you would do. I agree do not verbalize FAIR BALLS but there are things that happen that have to be managed.This was a very good Umpire and has no problem getting good assignments. I really have a hard time with the way some people on this forum think that we live in a perfect world and that there is a black and white rule or mechanic for every game. I just talked with the State Interpreter and working 5000 plus games he said he had to say "Ball is in play" does that make anyone happy ??

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by xtremeump

F1 had the ball BR was in the batters box PU was standing on the third baseline pointing fair and no one is doing anything. You tell me how to handle it ??? I know it never happens, but this play did happen. Please tell me what you would do. I agree do not verbalize FAIR BALLS but there are things that happen that have to be managed.This was a very good Umpire and has no problem getting good assignments. I really have a hard time with the way some people on this forum think that we live in a perfect world and that there is a black and white rule or mechanic for every game. I just talked with the State Interpreter and working 5000 plus games he said he had to say "Ball is in play" does that make anyone happy ??

"It's in play" or "In Play" is what I would say if no one was reacting to a ball despite my pointing fair and otherwise acting as if the ball was in play.

[RPatrino]

Originally Posted by xtremeump

F1 had the ball BR was in the batters box PU was standing on the third baseline pointing fair and no one is doing anything. You tell me how to handle it ??? I know it never happens, but this play did happen. Please tell me what you would do. I agree do not verbalize FAIR BALLS but there are things that happen that have to be managed.This was a very good Umpire and has no problem getting good assignments. I really have a hard time with the way some people on this forum think that we live in a perfect world and that there is a black and white rule or mechanic for every game. I just talked with the State Interpreter and working 5000 plus games he said he had to say "Ball is in play" does that make anyone happy ??

The problem with this situation is, the ball was NOT in play. It was foul, and should STAY foul under FED rules. The PU had no rule based reason to say FAIR. Once a call of foul is made, the ball is DEAD, no longer in play. It cannot be made live again, there is no reincarnation of a dead ball.

If the rule set you are playing under allows that to be corrected, it is NOT corrected by telling everyone, "OK guys, start running!!" You place the runners where , in your judgement, they belong, had the ball not erroneously been called foul.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by xtremeump

F1 had the ball BR was in the batters box PU was standing on the third baseline pointing fair and no one is doing anything. You tell me how to handle it ??? I know it never happens, but this play did happen. Please tell me what you would do. I agree do not verbalize FAIR BALLS but there are things that happen that have to be managed.This was a very good Umpire and has no problem getting good assignments. I really have a hard time with the way some people on this forum think that we live in a perfect world and that there is a black and white rule or mechanic for every game. I just talked with the State Interpreter and working 5000 plus games he said he had to say "Ball is in play" does that make anyone happy ??

"You tell me how to handle it ??? "

At a Varsity level game? Stand on the third baseline and point fair.

Consider it a lesson learned in what to expect, when you come on this site. It is not a" Perfect World" but, it is the "Real World".

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by xtremeump

F1 had the ball BR was in the batters box PU was standing on the third baseline pointing fair and no one is doing anything. You tell me how to handle it ??? I know it never happens, but this play did happen. Please tell me what you would do.

Continue pointing Fair. Eventually, somebody's gonna look at me and figure it out.

Yeah, verbalizing, "Hey fellas, that's a Fair Ball," or, "How long do I need to stand here and point until you realize that the ball is Fair," is a viable alternative. But it's certainly against approved umpiring mechanics. If you want to do that, go for it. You'll probably get the reaction you're hoping for. But just because some veteran umpire said that's what he would do, that doesn't mean it's proper.