Time of pitch or time of throw?

[starman]

Can someone help me with a play?

Runners on first and second, nobody out. Ground ball to 3B. The thirdbaseman tags third for the first out and thorws the ball out of play when trying to get the batter at first base. R1 is past second base when the throw is made.

Is the award time of pitch or time of throw? If tagging third is considered a play, then I think that it should be time of throw.

[DG]

A tag or tag try of a base is a play.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by starman

Can someone help me with a play?

Runners on first and second, nobody out. Ground ball to 3B. The thirdbaseman tags third for the first out and thorws the ball out of play when trying to get the batter at first base. R1 is past second base when the throw is made.

Is the award time of pitch or time of throw? If tagging third is considered a play, then I think that it should be time of throw.

DG is correct, which means in your play above, it is a time of throw award. R1 to home and the BR to second (unless, for some rare reason he reached first before the throw was released--admittedly this is exceedingly rare).

[Ia-Ref]

Originally Posted by UMP25

DG is correct, which means in your play above, it is a time of throw award. R1 to home and the BR to second (unless, for some rare reason he reached first before the throw was released--admittedly this is exceedingly rare).

If R1 is on 1st base at the time of the pitch, the"First Play" has not ended (assuming in the example) all runners were not to the next base when the throw was made to first. Awards would be all runner's position from time of pitch. R1's two base award from time of pitch would put R1 on 3rd base, batter to 2nd.

If the throw to first was to put out the batter/runner making a turn to second after touching first, then the award would be from the time of throw.
R1 to Home, batter to 3rd.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by Ia-Ref

If R1 is on 1st base at the time of the pitch, the"First Play" has not ended (assuming in the example) all runners were not to the next base when the throw was made to first.

Huh?

My explanation above was accurate and correct. I don't know why you have to make things so confusing with this "first play has not ended" comment. That's unnecessary and incorrect.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Huh?

My explanation above was accurate and correct. I don't know why you have to make things so confusing with this "first play has not ended" comment. That's unnecessary and incorrect.

But at least it's not timely.

[UMP25]

This is true.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Ia-Ref

If R1 is on 1st base at the time of the pitch, the"First Play" has not ended (assuming in the example) all runners were not to the next base when the throw was made to first. Awards would be all runner's position from time of pitch. R1's two base award from time of pitch would put R1 on 3rd base, batter to 2nd.

If the throw to first was to put out the batter/runner making a turn to second after touching first, then the award would be from the time of throw.
R1 to Home, batter to 3rd.

I don't know where you got any of this, but it's blatantly incorrect. I suggest you go ask whoever told you this to check again.

[UMP25]

I'm still trying to decipher exactly what he said.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by UMP25

I'm still trying to decipher exactly what he said.

I think he's under the impression that the first play is somehow anything that happens before the batter and everyone else advances a base. Nonsensical, but I think that was what he was advocating.

[Ia-Ref]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I don't know where you got any of this, but it's blatantly incorrect. I suggest you go ask whoever told you this to check again.

This is blatantly incorrect.
How?

Please enlighten us (or maybe just me) with your knowledge.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Ia-Ref

This is blatantly incorrect.
How?

Please enlighten us (or maybe just me) with your knowledge.

Your assertion that the play wasn't over is blatantly incorrect. The tag of third was the first play and satisfied the "first play" condition. ALL subsequent action is after the first play so any throw out of play is two bases TOT.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Ia-Ref

This is blatantly incorrect.
How?

Please enlighten us (or maybe just me) with your knowledge.

I believe it's just you. Look at the other posts.

The first play is the FIRST play. First attempt to throw or tag a runner out. "First" has a pretty easy to understand meaning. "First" doesn't mean "all of the things that happen before X and Y happen"... it means first.

The most common example of this happening, actually, flies right in the face of the insane interpretation you gave us. R1, Grounder to short, who throws to 2nd for the easy force (this would be the FIRST play). F4 then throws toward first for the double play and sails it into the stand. This would NOT be the first play ... it's the second play. By your "definition", this second play would somehow also be another first play.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Ia-Ref

If the throw to first was to put out the batter/runner making a turn to second after touching first, then the award would be from the time of throw.
R1 to Home, batter to 3rd.

I'm trying really hard to understand why you feel that the BR making a turn toward second could possibly have anything to do with an award being from TOP or TOT.

Tim.

[UMP25]

Perhaps he was trying to mean that when a batter-runner reaches or passes first base BEFORE a wild throw is made, then the award is TOT, even if the throw is the first play by an infielder. Of course, this would be true only IF the B-R (and all other runners, if there were any) reached his advance base before the throw was released. This, however, as I stated above, is exceedingly rare.