Pickoff Attempt At 2nd - Balk?

[Spence]

R2.

F1 spins and attempts to pick off the runner.
Throws to F6 who is , say, 10 feet from the base.
Legal?

Balk rule says step directly toward the base. Does this satisfy it(I realize it might be a HTBT). If F6 is in his "normal" defensive position would that be a balk?

Trying to see what the limits are here.

Thanks

[dash_riprock]

Since F1 doesn't have to throw at all, a step in the general direction of 2nd base (more towards 2nd than 1st or 3rd) is all that is needed. No balk.

[Forest Ump]

F1 is not required to throw the ball to F6 or to F4 for that matter. He need only step towards second before feinting or throwing. Turning and stepping satisfies that requirement. Since he can feint or throw, it makes no difference where F6 or F4 are playing.

[Spence]

Thanks.

Let's change it to 1b then just so I can get an idea of the requirements.

F3 playing behind the bag and off the line ie normal defensive position. Throw to him. Anything?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Spence

Thanks.

Let's change it to 1b then just so I can get an idea of the requirements.

F3 playing behind the bag and off the line in normal defensive position. Throw to him. Anything?

Balk. You have to throw to 1B, not F3. Same with 3B/F5 if you've adopted the new OBR rule.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Balk. You have to throw to 1B, not F3. Same with 3B/F5 if you've adopted the new OBR rule.

Unless he's in a position to make a play (which isn't likely given the most recent play here, but just for completeness sake)

[RPatrino]

Yes, the key in the throw to F3 behind the bag is if he is attempting to make a play.

Also, there has been much debate over the years about it being impossible to balk to second base. Absent some other illegal activity (not associated with the move to 2b), I tend to agree.

[Spence]

Help me out. I'm talking to an umpire who is hanging his hat on the fact that "if he throws to 2nd base it has to be 'to the base' ."

I found an interp from Wendelstedt but he says that's "old."

Can you point me to recent interps regarding this? Note: I'm not an umpire - I just try to know the rules.

[Daryl H. Long]

NF Case 6.2.4 Sit J should help with what others have been saying. Key is proximity to the base and is totally umpire judgement.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Spence

Help me out. I'm talking to an umpire who is hanging his hat on the fact that "if he throws to 2nd base it has to be 'to the base' ."

I found an interp from Wendelstedt but he says that's "old."

Can you point me to recent interps regarding this? Note: I'm not an umpire - I just try to know the rules.

What's old as of this year is that he doesn't have to throw to 3B. He can't do that this year. Feints and therefore throws to a fielder near 2B are still allowed.

Are you sure you are talking to an umpire?

[Tim C]

I am not surprised what some "umpires" tell other umpires.

Obviously all these guys have given you the correct ruling.

If you consider the following:

With second base occupied a pitcher really has free range. He can turn and stop and not throw . . . he can throw to either F6 or F4 no matter their location. He can start his motion, step behind the pitcher's plate and start running at R2.

Actually as it is so difficult to even find a "what if" we teach that:

'It is impossible to balk (to an occupied) second base. We believe if we teach it that way EVEN IF A BALK was somehow committed it would be best to miss that 'third world play' than have umpires balking clearly legally plays at second base.

The "umpire" that gave you his ruling is a twit.

Tee

[umpjim]

" He can start his motion, step behind the pitcher's plate and start running at R2."

When you put that on paper I would say it's a balk. In real life maybe we don't call it. But it is not a violation of IITBTSB, it's an 8.05(a) balk if called.

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by umpjim

" He can start his motion, step behind the pitcher's plate and start running at R2."

When you put that on paper I would say it's a balk. In real life maybe we don't call it. But it is not a violation of IITBTSB, it's an 8.05(a) balk if called.

No maybe about it...no balk. Did F1 keep his hands together while moving towards 2B? If not, then I have a fake/aborted throw to 2B followed by some silly looking crap. Even considering this a balk is OOO.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by umpjim

" He can start his motion, step behind the pitcher's plate and start running at R2."

Not a balk.

[umpjim]

Had a college coach show me a thing he taught his pitchers. In the set, hands together, F1 would have a slow subtle hand break a moment before the pivot and step to 2B. He said it was rarely caught.

Also there is the simultaneous step off and backwards throw to 2B that I'm starting to see more of. I balk that.