Not a force, correct?

[Rufus]

Bases loaded, 2 outs. Grounder hit to F4 who, because he's 5, tags R1 rather than throw to 2nd or 1st for the force. Before he tags R1, however, R3 crosses the plate.

Based on 4.09(a) I think the run counts because R1 was retired via tag instead of a force. Is that correct?

4.09 HOW A TEAM SCORES.
(a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first, second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning.
EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first base; (2) by any runner being forced out; or (3) by a preceding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases.

BTW, I'm enjoying having these rules discussions with my 16YO who's in his second year of umpiring. Great fun to dissect and discuss a game that he's no longer playing but still loves.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Based on 4.09(a) I think the run counts because R1 was retired via tag instead of a force. Is that correct?

No.

The third out was on a "forced" runner before he reached his "force" base. The method (by touch of the "force" base, or by tag of the runner) doesn't matter

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Bases loaded, 2 outs. Grounder hit to F4 who, because he's 5, tags R1 rather than throw to 2nd or 1st for the force. Before he tags R1, however, R3 crosses the plate.

Is it possible this 5 year old knows the game better than the poster? This was the correct play... good job, kiddo!

The runner was forced to advance. The method of achieving the out (tag or at the base) is irrelevant.

No run.

[Rich Ives]

A really common misconception exhibited by Rufus.

Read carefully:

7.08 Any runner is out when—
(e) He or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base, after he has been forced to advance by reason of the batter becoming a runner.

Note that the second phrase matches the definition of force play found in 2.00

[Rufus]

Thanks for the quick replies! No doubt the 5YO's knowledge of many things would leave me in the dust! What's funny is my initial reaction was exactly what you both said since it makes sense. Usually when that happens I'm incorrect, though, so I go in the opposite direction.

I'll keep looking through OBR for the verbiage about tag/at the base but, having done so, 4.09(a) is the closest I've come to finding anything relevant. Does anyone have a rules reference for tag being the same as touching the base when there is a force play?

[Rufus]

Thanks Rich! Obviously was in the process of posting my reply before I saw yours.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Bases loaded, 2 outs. Grounder hit to F4 who, because he's 5, tags R1 rather than throw to 2nd or 1st for the force. Before he tags R1, however, R3 crosses the plate.

Based on 4.09(a) I think the run counts because R1 was retired via tag instead of a force. Is that correct?

4.09 HOW A TEAM SCORES.
(a) One run shall be scored each time a runner legally advances to and touches first, second, third and home base before three men are put out to end the inning.
EXCEPTION: A run is not scored if the runner advances to home base during a play in which the third out is made (1) by the batter-runner before he touches first base; (2) by any runner being forced out; or (3) by a preceding runner who is declared out because he failed to touch one of the bases.

BTW, I'm enjoying having these rules discussions with my 16YO who's in his second year of umpiring. Great fun to dissect and discuss a game that he's no longer playing but still loves.

The "Forced out" part, has to do with a runner that is forced to vacate a base as a result of the batter needing a base to run to. As Rich has pointed out, you also need to read the section on BaseRunning, it explains who has the right to be on a base at any given time.