DH and Fielder Sub

[tankmjg24]

FED Rules High School Varsity.

Team Is Using A DH For F8. DH Singles And Coach Wants To Run F8 For Him. I Make Note Of Change And Remind Coach His DH Position Is Now Burned. Later DH Comes To Bat. I Tell The Coach That He Had Burned The DH To Which His Response Is That He Is Reentering. To Make A Long Story Short I Say No, Partner (My Senior) Says Yes. Who Was Right?

Sorry For The Caps, I Am On My Phone.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

FED Rules High School Varsity.

Team Is Using A DH For F8. DH Singles And Coach Wants To Run F8 For Him. I Make Note Of Change And Remind Coach His DH Position Is Now Burned. Later DH Comes To Bat. I Tell The Coach That He Had Burned The DH To Which His Response Is That He Is Reentering. To Make A Long Story Short I Say No, Partner (My Senior) Says Yes. Who Was Right?

Sorry For The Caps, I Am On My Phone.

The DH position is burned, but the player may still reenter to hit for F8. DH still has his reentry, just not as a DH any longer. Your senior was correct.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

FED Rules High School Varsity.

Team Is Using A DH For F8. DH Singles And Coach Wants To Run F8 For Him. I Make Note Of Change And Remind Coach His DH Position Is Now Burned. Later DH Comes To Bat. I Tell The Coach That He Had Burned The DH To Which His Response Is That He Is Reentering. To Make A Long Story Short I Say No, Partner (My Senior) Says Yes. Who Was Right?

Sorry For The Caps, I Am On My Phone.

If your phone had the Rules App you would have been able to find this easily:

3-1-3
ART. 3 . . . Any of the starting players may be withdrawn and re-entered once, including a player who was the designated hitter, provided such player occupies the same batting position whenever he is in the lineup. The pitcher is governed by the provisions of Article 2 above. A substitute who is withdrawn may not re-enter. A starting pitcher who is replaced in the top of the first inning while his team is at bat shall be governed by the provisions of Articles 1 and 2 above.

[CT1]

To put it in easy-to-understand terms:

The DH & the player he's DHing for are locked together in the lineup. They can't both play on offense in the same half-inning without losing the DH status. They can never be on the field on defense at the same time.

Both are considered starters, and each has reentry rights.

[johnnyg08]

Don't feel bad, it is a common myth. Now you know.

[tankmjg24]

Thanks guys for the info. I was thinking that where the fielder entered to run that it eliminated the DH and subsequently since the DH role is gone he is out of the lineup for good. If it had been a sub the DH would have been allowed to re-enter and hit, or enter the field.

On a side note, our association is at odds over this as word has spread throughout and everyone has been formulating their theories. UIC says that I was correct (basically same thought I had). Have not heard from rules interpreter (probably will not as he acts busier than President Obama haha).

So know how does one go about contacting the UIC and telling him that I was incorrect and so is he

[davelock11]

In this situation, after DH re-enters and bats, can F8 then re-enter?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by davelock11

In this situation, after DH re-enters and bats, can F8 then re-enter?

As strange as it might seem, yes he can. He only left the game once (when the ex-DH came to bat the 2nd time), and still has his re-entry available.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by davelock11

In this situation, after DH re-enters and bats, can F8 then re-enter?

Ask yourself this: Was F8 a starter who hadn't been out of the lineup until the DH reentered?

Based on that, can F8 re-enter?

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

Thanks guys for the info. I was thinking that where the fielder entered to run that it eliminated the DH and subsequently since the DH role is gone he is out of the lineup for good. If it had been a sub the DH would have been allowed to re-enter and hit, or enter the field.

On a side note, our association is at odds over this as word has spread throughout and everyone has been formulating their theories. UIC says that I was correct (basically same thought I had). Have not heard from rules interpreter (probably will not as he acts busier than President Obama haha).

So know how does one go about contacting the UIC and telling him that I was incorrect and so is he

First of all, call your partner and say "I screwed up but learned something, sorry."

End of that snafu!!

Second, your association is at odds over this? DO THEY READ THE RULE BOOK?
What theories could they possibly be forming? 3-1-3 clearly states, and has for many years that any starting player, including the DH may be withdrawn and re-enter once. Not even sure why you need an interpreter for that??

What am I missing here?

[davelock11]

Thanks for the quick responses guys! I was thinking that F8 could still re-enter, but just wanted to make sure. I haven't had it happen in a game as an umpire, but I knew I had done it a couple of times when I was coaching.

[tankmjg24]

I believe many like myself understand that a starter could re-enter, but where it was the fielder entering for the DH that this burned him. I think that they are confusing the re-entry rule and the rule where the DH is burned.

Surprisingly, in my 10 years of officiating, this is the first time I have seen a coach do this change. I would guess many of my fellow officials here probably have not heard nor seen of this.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

I believe many like myself understand that a starter could re-enter, but where it was the fielder entering for the DH that this burned him. I think that they are confusing the re-entry rule and the rule where the DH is burned.

Surprisingly, in my 10 years of officiating, this is the first time I have seen coach this change. I would guess many of my fellow officials here probably have not heard nor seen of this.

Interesting. It's a rather common tactic here - your strong but lumbering DH gets on in the 4th or 5th inning, you put in the speedster to run and then field, then if you need it you still get one more dip into the well and (effectively, not technically) pinch hit your DH for your speedster/fielder in the 6th or 7th inning ... and still get your speedster/fielder back in the field for the end of the game. It only really costs you if you A) run the speedster for the DH too early in the game, or B) go to extra innings - and your fielder/speedster ends up having to bat.

I see this several times a year, and often anticipate it when the John Kruk body type is the DH, and the fielder he's replacing is the speedster type.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

I believe many like myself understand that a starter could re-enter, but where it was the fielder entering for the DH that this burned him. I think that they are confusing the re-entry rule and the rule where the DH is burned.

Surprisingly, in my 10 years of officiating, this is the first time I have seen a coach do this change. I would guess many of my fellow officials here probably have not heard nor seen of this.

They are confusing the "PLAYER who is the dh" and the "DH as a ROLE".

It's the latter that gets "burned", not the former.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

I believe many like myself understand that a starter could re-enter, but where it was the fielder entering for the DH that this burned him. I think that they are confusing the re-entry rule and the rule where the DH is burned.

Surprisingly, in my 10 years of officiating, this is the first time I have seen a coach do this change. I would guess many of my fellow officials here probably have not heard nor seen of this.

If reading the rulebook generates a debate in your association then you could quote this caseplay:

3.1.4 SITUATION C:

F4, for whom the DH is batting, pinch hits or pinch runs for the DH.

RULING: The DH position is eliminated for the remainder of the game. However, the starting DH could re-enter as a player but not in the role of DH. If he does re-enter, he must re-enter in the same position in the batting order, replacing F4.