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Old Thu Apr 18, 2013, 08:53am
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New NFHS Two-Umpire Mechanic.

I have an intense dislike for the new NFHS Two-Umpire mechanic that requires the BU to be in the "B" position when there are Runners on 1B and 3B. I can truly say without exaggeration or hyperbole that well over 95% of the time I have had this situation, I have only been in the "B" for not more than two pitches because the Offensive Team has its Runner on 1B steal 2B and the Defensive Team lets the Runner steal 2B due to Catcher Indifference. Stupid, stupid mechanic.

I guess I am getting lazy and senile in my old age.

MTD, Sr.
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Old Thu Apr 18, 2013, 09:00am
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I don't agree at all. The college mechanic has always been B with R1 and R3. Does it bother you to take 4 steps to the C after R1 steals 2nd? The potential steal of 2nd is why you are in B in the first place.
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Old Thu Apr 18, 2013, 09:28am
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Standard PBUC 2-man has U1 in B with a runner at 1st or 1st and 3rd.

Why did NFHS, ever think that U1 should be pre-pitch positioned in C, I'll never know.
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Old Thu Apr 18, 2013, 09:39am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
I have an intense dislike for the new NFHS Two-Umpire mechanic that requires the BU to be in the "B" position when there are Runners on 1B and 3B. I can truly say without exaggeration or hyperbole that well over 95% of the time I have had this situation, I have only been in the "B" for not more than two pitches because the Offensive Team has its Runner on 1B steal 2B and the Defensive Team lets the Runner steal 2B due to Catcher Indifference. Stupid, stupid mechanic.

I guess I am getting lazy and senile in my old age.

MTD, Sr.
I agree with you in youth ball - for exactly the reason you state. But in most High School ball I've done, the steal of 2nd is not a given, and catcher indifference nearly unheard of. And most HS's can get the runner out at home if they try the delayed double steal.
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Old Thu Apr 18, 2013, 11:24am
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Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
I agree with you in youth ball - for exactly the reason you state. But in most High School ball I've done, the steal of 2nd is not a given, and catcher indifference nearly unheard of. And most HS's can get the runner out at home if they try the delayed double steal.
Most of the HS games I worked, a throw would be made but usually just to try to bait the runner at third rather than an actual attempt to stop the steal.
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Old Thu Apr 18, 2013, 12:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
I have an intense dislike for the new NFHS Two-Umpire mechanic that requires the BU to be in the "B" position when there are Runners on 1B and 3B. MTD, Sr.
Personally, I like it. Gives you the same look on the steal that you're used to seeing with R1 only, plus you're well-positioned to call the back end of a DP. And, if F6 comes to cut off the throw from F2, you're completely out of his way.

Our state, which uses our own manual instead of NFHS, has used this positioning for several years, with no complaints that I'm aware of.
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Old Thu Apr 18, 2013, 01:56pm
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The double steal is only just one possibility. There are more things that could happen that makes the B position a more advantageous position than C in the 1st/3rd configuration.
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Old Thu Apr 18, 2013, 02:35pm
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Originally Posted by shickenbottom View Post
Standard PBUC 2-man has U1 in B with a runner at 1st or 1st and 3rd.

Why did NFHS, ever think that U1 should be pre-pitch positioned in C, I'll never know.
there are three "positioning rules" that can be used, and each is "advantageous" depending on the particular play / umpiring ability. Whch is used depends (imo) on what happened "last" to whoever is in charge:

1) Use C whenever there's a runner at second or third.
2) Use C whenever a (single) steal of third is possible.
3) Use B whenever a (single) steal of second is possible.

I started my training with #1. My state uses #2 for HS. I prefer #3.
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Old Thu Apr 18, 2013, 02:45pm
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You want to call a potential pickoff play at 1st from C ??
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Old Thu Apr 18, 2013, 03:50pm
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Originally Posted by REFANDUMP View Post
You want to call a potential pickoff play at 1st from C ??
That's where you would be with runners at first and second or bases loaded. So that shouldn't be the deciding factor.
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Old Thu Apr 18, 2013, 04:12pm
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Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
That's where you would be with runners at first and second or bases loaded. So that shouldn't be the deciding factor.
With the two situations you describe, I agree. What is the likelyhood of a pickoff attempt at 1st there ?? With runners on 1st and 3rd however, the likelyhood of a pickoff attempt at 1st is a reasonable possibility, and that is what that original question was about.
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Old Thu Apr 18, 2013, 04:17pm
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I don't work NFHS so I am in B in that situation, but C can't be that bad. With C you start with a better angle than you would have in B, and on a pick the only thing you can do from B is take a big step towards the plate to try to gain a better angle. From C, you can probably step towards the mound to get an even better angle as well as a little bit closer.
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Old Thu Apr 18, 2013, 05:51pm
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Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
And most HS's can get the runner out at home if they try the delayed double steal.
You're comparing Texas HS baseball to Midwest HS baseball, and there's no comparison. In the Great Lakes states, the average HS team has problems getting out of its own way. Making a play requiring an error-free sequence of catch, throw, catch, throw, catch, tag is WAY beyond a good two-thirds of HS varsity teams where baseball weather doesn't arrive until the season is over.
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Old Thu Apr 18, 2013, 07:28pm
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Originally Posted by briancurtin View Post
I don't work NFHS so I am in B in that situation, but C can't be that bad. With C you start with a better angle than you would have in B, and on a pick the only thing you can do from B is take a big step towards the plate to try to gain a better angle. From C, you can probably step towards the mound to get an even better angle as well as a little bit closer.
Your not all wrong however, I have found the number one thing that has an effect on that pick off at first is "perception". Even one step towards the plate in B, still puts you about 40 feet closer than two steps toward the mound from "C".

Again, most umpires can handle it from C easily but, it just looks better from B.
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Old Thu Apr 18, 2013, 07:57pm
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Junior and I had a varsity game this afternoon. Six times today I went to the "B" position with Runners on 1B and 3B and each and every time the Runner on 1B stole 2B on Catcher's Indifference on the very first pitch to the Batter.

MTD, Sr.
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