Did I screw this up?

[bluehair]

The no hurding rule was put in place for safety. You don't want spikes flying by a fielder's head. Fed also has an avoid contact safety rule also.

You say that R2 went over/around F5 after F5 dropped the ball. You have to judge if R2's action was more of a hurdle or more of an attempt to avoid contact with F5 who is probably doing something different than he would be if he didn't drop the ball. If F5 reached over/into R2's path then perhaps F5 initiated this problem for you. Not that R2 can justify hurdling him, but perhaps you do have nothing. Judgement call.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by bluehair

The no hurding rule was put in place for safety. You don't want spikes flying by a fielder's head. Fed also has an avoid contact safety rule also.

You say that R2 went over/around F5 after F5 dropped the ball. You have to judge if R2's action was more of a hurdle or more of an attempt to avoid contact with F5 who is probably doing something different than he would be if he didn't drop the ball. If F5 reached over/into R2's path then perhaps F5 initiated this problem for you. Not that R2 can justify hurdling him, but perhaps you do have nothing. Judgement call.

What's the avoid contact safety rule?

It sounds like F5 was not lying on the ground so this would not apply:

"2. Runners are never required to slide, but if a runner elects to slide, the slide must be legal. (2-32-1, 2) Jumping, hurdling, and leaping are all legal attempts to avoid a fielder as long as the fielder is lying on the ground. Diving over a fielder is illegal."

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by umpjim

What's the avoid contact safety rule?

Fed 8-4-2(c) requires runners to "attempt to avoid a fielder".

...The OP said "The runner jumps over/around the 3rd baseman". I have seen plays where runner was doing everything right and then a fielder does something wrong and causes runner to do something in an attempt to avoid a collision. I do not want to OOO this kind of action with a hurdling call.

I know what a hurdle looks like and I know what avoiding contact looks like. On a dirty play like the one in the OP, you have to decide what you've got. Was he more going over (illegal) or more going around (legal).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bluehair

The no hurding rule was put in place for safety. You don't want spikes flying by a fielder's head. Fed also has an avoid contact safety rule also.

You say that R2 went over/around F5 after F5 dropped the ball. You have to judge if R2's action was more of a hurdle or more of an attempt to avoid contact with F5 who is probably doing something different than he would be if he didn't drop the ball. If F5 reached over/into R2's path then perhaps F5 initiated this problem for you. Not that R2 can justify hurdling him, but perhaps you do have nothing. Judgement call.

Also: Hurdling is hurdling the fielder's body, not an outstretched arm or glove.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bluehair

You have to judge if R2's action was more of a hurdle or more of an attempt to avoid contact

It could have been both and jumping over a fielder even in an attempt to avoid contact is still illegal.

I do agree you need to determine jumping over v. jumping around, and even if part of the runner went over part of the defender then it could be legal.

So, it's a HTBT.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It could have been both and jumping over a fielder even in an attempt to avoid contact is still illegal.

I do agree you need to determine jumping over v. jumping around, and even if part of the runner went over part of the defender then it could be legal.

So, it's a HTBT.

Agreed.

[davelock11]

So after reading responses here and going back through my rule book, I think I got it right after all. I felt pretty good about it at first, but on the ride home my partner thought I should've gotten the out. He said if a runner jumps then he's out. I was pretty sure that wasn't right, but he was very sure of himself.

The runner didn't jump directly over the 3rd baseman on the play. His head probably went over the 3rd baseman's shoulder, but his torso and legs were out to the side and went over his arm and around him.

Thanks for all the input. As a newer (2nd yr) umpire, I learn a lot just lurking around and reading on this site!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by davelock11

So after reading responses here and going back through my rule book, I think I got it right after all. I felt pretty good about it at first, but on the ride home my partner thought I should've gotten the out. He said if a runner jumps then he's out. I was pretty sure that wasn't right, but he was very sure of himself.

The runner didn't jump directly over the 3rd baseman on the play. His head probably went over the 3rd baseman's shoulder, but his torso and legs were out to the side and went over his arm and around him.

Thanks for all the input. As a newer (2nd yr) umpire, I learn a lot just lurking around and reading on this site!

Based on that revised description, I agree with you.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by davelock11

Thanks for all the input. As a newer (2nd yr) umpire, I learn a lot just lurking around and reading on this site!

Please stick around, asking questions and contributing. Don't be bashful about posting, increased participation helps us all.

[MD Longhorn]

Sounds like you ruled correctly to me as well.

Had a clinician tell us once that "hurdling" should only be called if the runner went directly over the fielder's head or shoulders... and also that he can't justify that call unless someone's in danger of taking a knee or leg to the face - although he was known for his hyperbole.

He also said the next time he saw it called legitimately would be his first, and he was a 30-ish year guy.

"If a runner jumps, it's an out"? I worry a little about your partner. Next time you see him, ask him to define a jump, and then when he answers, how does his definition differ from a normal stride.

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by davelock11

Thanks for all the input. As a newer (2nd yr) umpire, I learn a lot just lurking around and reading on this site!

Nothing seer a memory into place like booting one on the field. Second best is booting one on the internet. Don't be afraid to take a virtual beating on some internet site because you don't have ten years of experience. Jump in, take your best shot, and roll with the punches.

[RPatrino]

My games have all been rained out this week, and I'm bored. Soooooooo, let's take this thread in another direction for a second.

" The ball gets there, but the 3rd baseman drops it. He is in front of the bag."

Let's talk about obstruction, any thoughts?

[MD Longhorn]

RP - I thought about that initially as well, but didn't want to muddy it up, as OBS was not the intent of what the OP was trying to figure out.


But yeah - if he drops it and is still in the way, and runner reacts, you have OBS.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

My games have all been rained out this week, and I'm bored. Soooooooo, let's take this thread in another direction for a second.

" The ball gets there, but the 3rd baseman drops it. He is in front of the bag."

Let's talk about obstruction, any thoughts?

yes, you have OBS. But, if the runner then jumps over the fielder, the runner is still out.

[CT1]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

" The ball gets there, but the 3rd baseman drops it. He is in front of the bag."

Safe.