pitcher illegal use of glove

[sanantonio ump]

a hotshot one hopper up the middle . the pitcher fielding the baseball , having trouble getting the ball out of his glove . he throws his glove with the baseball in it to the firstbasemen getting it there before the batted runner reaches first base . my partner and i ruled detached equipment and awarded 3 bases no out at first base on the play .

[Welpe]

First of all, welcome to the forum. Please feel free to look around and interact.

Second of all, you kicked it under both Fed and OBR rules.

Fed Reference:

5.1.1 SITUATION R:

On a sharply hit ground ball that is snagged by F1, the player's initial attempts to withdraw the ball from the glove and throw the ball to F3 are not successful. In an attempt to retire the batter-runner, F1 tosses his glove with the lodged ball to F3.

RULING: U1 will declare the ball dead and award the batter-runner second base. When F1 tossed his fielding glove to F3 to put out the batter-runner, it became apparent that the ball was lodged and the ball becomes dead and the award is made.

Under OBR, this is a legal play and an out.

[scrounge]

I'm not sure how you could possibly get a 3 base award out of that. He didn't field the ball with detached equipment, since the glove was properly worn at the time he touched the live, batted ball.

Now an argument could be made he then used detached equip to throw the ball, which I initially thought during a similar conversation on just this topic on another board. But after discussion and reflection, more accurately I think we have a lodged ball here. Either way it's a 2 base award. By taking off the glove and throwing the ball/glove unit, the fielder admitted it was lodged IMO. Doesn't matter what happened after that, lodged ball, kill it, award 2 bases thusly. This is all assuming Fed, of course.

[bob jenkins]

Get a new partner.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by sanantonio ump

a hotshot one hopper up the middle . the pitcher fielding the baseball , having trouble getting the ball out of his glove . he throws his glove with the baseball in it to the firstbasemen getting it there before the batted runner reaches first base . my partner and i ruled detached equipment and awarded 3 bases no out at first base on the play .

Oh My God!

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Oh My God!

An out, a triple, what's the difference? Actually, after reading the OP more carefully, it appears the runner was batted. Maybe he deserved to get 3 bases.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Get a new partner.

I think they both need to do that.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

I think they both need to do that.

Dash - there's someone looking for you on Umpire-Empire.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Dash - there's someone looking for you on Umpire-Empire.

Jeez, Rich. How many internet boards do you play on anyway?

[bellsjc]

He is confusing the the 3 base award for a fielder throwing detached equipment at a batted ball. The 3 base award is only granted if the thrown equipment contacts the ball.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by bellsjc

He is confusing the the 3 base award for a fielder throwing detached equipment at a batted ball. The 3 base award is only granted if the thrown equipment contacts the ball.

There really shouldn't be any confusion. As you point out, the rules specifically cover when a fielder throws his glove at the batted ball, or he touches a batted ball with a detached cap, mask, or other part of his uniform.

This is a situation where the fielder properly fielded the ball. It is no longer a batted ball at that point. Once he removed his glove with the ball stuck in it, it became a lodged ball under FED, but is still considered a live ball in OBR.

[voiceoflg]

Originally Posted by Manny A

There really shouldn't be any confusion. As you point out, the rules specifically cover when a fielder throws his glove at the batted ball, or he touches a batted ball with a detached cap, mask, or other part of his uniform.

This is a situation where the fielder properly fielded the ball. It is no longer a batted ball at that point. Once he removed his glove with the ball stuck in it, it became a lodged ball under FED, but is still considered a live ball in OBR.

So why the difference in the two set of rules?

I saw this happen at a Dixie Youth game (OBR) and the umpires called the BR out. I have not seen it at the high school level and if I had I would have thought the BR would be out as well because of the Dixie Youth game.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by voiceoflg

So why the difference in the two set of rules?

.

Because the various organizations have a different view of what the rules should be.

There are a LOT of differences - a LOT - across various organizations. That's why the first response to a question here is often "which rules?".

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by Welpe

First of all, welcome to the forum. Please feel free to look around and interact.

Second of all, you kicked it under both Fed and OBR rules.

Fed Reference:

5.1.1 SITUATION R:

On a sharply hit ground ball that is snagged by F1, the player's initial attempts to withdraw the ball from the glove and throw the ball to F3 are not successful. In an attempt to retire the batter-runner, F1 tosses his glove with the lodged ball to F3.

RULING: U1 will declare the ball dead and award the batter-runner second base. When F1 tossed his fielding glove to F3 to put out the batter-runner, it became apparent that the ball was lodged and the ball becomes dead and the award is made.

Under OBR, this is a legal play and an out.

Do all base runners also advance two bases? Sounds logical on my end.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Do all base runners also advance two bases? Sounds logical on my end.

Yes.