3rd to 1st Move Becomes a Balk

[scrounge]

I'm fine with it disappearing. Silly move that almost never fooled anyone above 13 and was mostly just a waste of time. Why have different rules for 3B and 1B about feinting and not throwing?

[jicecone]

If your stupid enough to get picked off that way you shouldn't be in the game. Unfortunately most announcers are less smarter than the player getting picked off.

Oz, at the MLB level it stopped being a game a while ago. It's just entertainment now.

[David B]

[QUOTE=jicecone;874645
Oz, at the MLB level it stopped being a game a while ago. It's just entertainment now.[/QUOTE]

Great point - attend a game today and the players are so spoiled, don't mingle with the fans, its all about entertaining.

And get a hangnail and they sit out for three games ...

Baseball as we know it is long gone ...

Thanks
David

[Steven Tyler]

At the MLB level, it is probably primarily used to get the batter, or runners to tip off a play the offense might attempt. They might want to keep the runner tighter at 1B if the F3 is playing behind the runner. Who cares?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by scrounge

Why have different rules for 3B and 1B about feinting and not throwing?

The rules are written to maintain some balance between the offense and the defense. If pitchers were allowed to feint to first base to pin runners there, the defense would be at a greater advantage because less runners could get into scoring position. So that's why the rulesmakers decided to prohibit feints to first, but not other bases.

It's similar to the foul bunt rule. Without it, batters could conceivably bunt away pitches that weren't in their wheelhouse. That gave the offense too much of an advantage, so we have a rule calling for an out when a batter bunts the ball foul with two strikes.

[egj13]

This rule has always essentially been there (has been a case play in the rule book itself as long as I can remember) but it wasn't being called consistently so they just did away with the possibility of it ever happening.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by egj13

This rule has always essentially been there (has been a case play in the rule book itself as long as I can remember) but it wasn't being called consistently so they just did away with the possibility of it ever happening.

SAY WHAT? Are you talking about the 3rd to 1st move? If you are the you didn't 'jump off your soapbox". you fell off. Please mention ONE game wher this wasn't called consistently, one. in alomost 30 years of umpiring, i can't recall ANYONE blowing this call, in games I have done or watched in person or on TV.

[Mrumpiresir]

Any umpire worth a damn can call this easily. If F1 steps and fakes to 3rd and clears the rubber and then fakes or throw to first, he has not violated a rule. If he steps to third and is is still in contact with the rubber and in the same motion turns and feints to first, he has balked. If he doesn't step toward third in his fake, he has balked.

I find this an entertaining part of the game and yes, I have seen it work.

I still contend there is no reason to change this rule.

Someone is dumbing down the game of baseball.

[egj13]

Originally Posted by jicecone

SAY WHAT? Are you talking about the 3rd to 1st move? If you are the you didn't 'jump off your soapbox". you fell off. Please mention ONE game wher this wasn't called consistently, one. in alomost 30 years of umpiring, i can't recall ANYONE blowing this call, in games I have done or watched in person or on TV.

Even in the current rule (before any change) it was a balk if you faked towards 3rd and then wheeled to throw to first without stepping towards first. Umpires at ALL levels were not enforcing the step towards first and thus not calling the rule as it was intended to be called.

Here is the excerpt stright from the MLB rule book:

"Rule 8.05(c) Comment: Requires the pitcher, while touching his plate, to step directly
toward a base before throwing to that base. If a pitcher turns or spins off of his free foot without
actually stepping or if he turns his body and throws before stepping, it is a balk.
Apitcher is to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base but does not require him
to throw (except to first base only) because he steps. It is possible, with runners on first and third, for
the pitcher to step toward third and not throw, merely to bluff the runner back to third; then seeing the
runner on first start for second, turn and step toward and throw to first base. This is legal. However, if,
with runners on first and third, the pitcher, while in contact with the rubber, steps toward third and then
immediately and in practically the same motion “wheels” and throws to first base, it is obviously an
attempt to deceive the runner at first base, and in such a move it is practically impossible to step
directly toward first base before the throw to first base, and such a move shall be called a balk. Of
course, if the pitcher steps off the rubber and then makes such a move, it is not a balk."

So basically we as umpires weren't calling it consistently so baseball simply made it illegal at all times to take it out of our hands.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by egj13

Even in the current rule (before any change) it was a balk if you faked towards 3rd and then wheeled to throw to first without stepping towards first. Umpires at ALL levels were not enforcing the step towards first and thus not calling the rule as it was intended to be called.

Here is the excerpt stright from the MLB rule book:

"Rule 8.05(c) Comment: Requires the pitcher, while touching his plate, to step directly
toward a base before throwing to that base. If a pitcher turns or spins off of his free foot without
actually stepping or if he turns his body and throws before stepping, it is a balk.
Apitcher is to step directly toward a base before throwing to that base but does not require him
to throw (except to first base only) because he steps. It is possible, with runners on first and third, for
the pitcher to step toward third and not throw, merely to bluff the runner back to third; then seeing the
runner on first start for second, turn and step toward and throw to first base. This is legal. However, if,
with runners on first and third, the pitcher, while in contact with the rubber, steps toward third and then
immediately and in practically the same motion “wheels” and throws to first base, it is obviously an
attempt to deceive the runner at first base, and in such a move it is practically impossible to step
directly toward first base before the throw to first base, and such a move shall be called a balk. Of
course, if the pitcher steps off the rubber and then makes such a move, it is not a balk."

So basically we as umpires weren't calling it consistently so baseball simply made it illegal at all times to take it out of our hands.

There's so much here that isn't right that I don't know where to begin.

[maven]

Originally Posted by egj13

So basically we as umpires weren't calling it consistently so baseball simply made it illegal at all times to take it out of our hands.

As others have already pointed out, this account of the motivation for the change is incorrect. MLB doesn't care how you call your games or how anyone else might use their rules.

[egj13]

Originally Posted by maven

As others have already pointed out, this account of the motivation for the change is incorrect. MLB doesn't care how you call your games or how anyone else might use their rules.

My account for the motivation of the rule change came thusly...sitting at a dinner with the father of a MLB umpire last summer he brought up to me that MLB umpires had been informed that this rule would be eliminated because...wait for it...inconsistency in application.

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by egj13

So basically we as umpires weren't calling it consistently so baseball simply made it illegal at all times to take it out of our hands.

I have never seen F1 fein to 3B when he didn't come off the rubber on this move, which made it legal (previously) for the now infielder to throw to 1B. If F1 didn't come off the rubber, I can't image an umpire not recognizing it and balking it for no other reason than the ugliness it would take to perform.

Can you describe a sitch where you actually witnessed this "inconsistency"?

[egj13]

Originally Posted by bluehair

I have never seen F1 fein to 3B when he didn't come off the rubber on this move, which made it legal (previously) for the now infielder to throw to 1B. If F1 didn't come off the rubber, I can't image an umpire not recognizing it and balking it for no other reason than the ugliness it would take to perform.

Can you describe a sitch where you actually witnessed this "inconsistency"?

I am either dreaming or we have some bad umpires in here.

The pitcher would only have become an infileder if he stepped backward off the rubber prior to feining to third base. In a 3rd to 1st scenario the pitcher rarely, if ever steps off first. So since he stepped directly towards 3rd..without stepping off...and then wheeled to throw to first without stepping towards first ahead of the throw he now balked. The fact that he lost contact with the rubber when he feinted to third does not releas him from the requirement to STEP towards first before he throws there. Pull up some video...I bet you will be able to see that after feining to thrid, he then turned to throw to first WIHOUT STEPPING AHEAD of the throw...which is a balk.

Clearly no one on this board was calling it a balk hence the reason to need to change the rule

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by egj13

So basically we as umpires weren't calling it consistently so baseball simply made it illegal at all times to take it out of our hands.

Sorry we aren't going to be able to help you.