balk vs illegal pitch [FED]

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I know I am jumping into this debate kind of late, but I would like to relay a play that MTD, Jr., had last May. The game was the freshmen championship game of the league that consists of most of the largest high schools in NW Ohio.

Junior was on the bases. Bottom of the seventh inning, one out, runner on third base, and the scored tied. Junior was in the C position. The Pitcher assumed the Windup Position. As the Pitcher started his pitching motion his coach yelled for him to stop and pitch from the Set Position. The Pitcher stopped his motion for a full second and Mark balked in the winning run. Why? The Pitcher committed an illegal act, i.e., an illegal pitch, which is a balk when runners are on base. If the Pitcher had done the same thing with no one on base, it would still be an illegal pitch, for which the penalty is a ball awarded to the batter.

MTD. Sr.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Try not to be a total dolt, Rich. You know perfectly well what I am saying.

It's a worn out phrase, Ozzy. Local practice dictates crap like this -- I'm not going to be the only umpire in the area to call this when all the rest call it "no pitch."

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Try not to be a total dolt, Rich. You know perfectly well what I am saying.

It's a good thing you train umpires. We can use the laughs from time to time.

[bluehair]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

what other rules are you choosing not to enforce?

The 17" KZ, the rectangular prism KZ, F1 needs to take his signs from the rubber, uniform anomolies, and any other rule that requires suspension because rooster crowing threatens, baseball etiquette dictates, or ugliness demands.

I always thought that including the no-pitch as an illegal pitch was an unintended over-sight because I've never seen it called and had been told to leave it alone. Re-calculating.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's a worn out phrase, Ozzy. Local practice dictates crap like this -- I'm not going to be the only umpire in the area to call this when all the rest call it "no pitch."

Not germane to this infraction but similar. The F1 foot position in the WU and set is now a POE. Because it was ignored in many locations due to rule ignorance or local practice (because nobody was confused) it now should be strictly enforced. The "start and stop" (used to describe this OP infraction but also another infraction in the set which is not penalized in OBR but in practice is) is in the same category but has not been a focus yet for FED. Maybe it should be a POE next year. It's not a big deal whether you ball it or nothing it (with no runners) as long as everybody knows the code.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by bluehair

The 17" KZ, the rectangular prism KZ, F1 needs to take his signs from the rubber, uniform anomolies, and any other rule that requires suspension because rooster crowing threatens, baseball etiquette dictates, or ugliness demands.

I always thought that including the no-pitch as an illegal pitch was an unintended over-sight because I've never seen it called and had been told to leave it alone. Re-calculating.

Don't forget retouching after a foul ball.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Rich

It's a worn out phrase, Ozzy. Local practice dictates crap like this -- I'm not going to be the only umpire in the area to call this when all the rest call it "no pitch."

Ditto around here. I know no one who has called a ball, and no coaches who have complained.

[David B]

Originally Posted by Rich

Don't forget retouching after a foul ball.

Yep from me. I haven't seen this called in one of my games of many years - haven't seen it called in any games that i've watched.

Never heard a coach ask for a call on this type of play... so we just play on.

Might be different in other areas of country.

Thanks
David

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by David B

Yep from me. I haven't seen this called in one of my games of many years - haven't seen it called in any games that i've watched.

Never heard a coach ask for a call on this type of play... so we just play on.

Might be different in other areas of country.

Thanks
David

there's no call to make.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

We just had the mandatory state meeting the other night. The big wig who usually makes the presentation, at one point, gave an example of a pitcher stumbling while making his delivery (with no runners on base) and not delivering the ball. He said, "That's nothin'!"

Most agreed and nodded. In fact, I've seen that many times and I have never made any call. Nobody ever complains.

But then a discussion arose that, in FED (unlike OBR), any pitching infraction that would have normally been ruled a balk had there been runners on base, should be penalized as a "ball".

IMO, the "key ingeredient" in rules such as the one you mention lies within the association you belong to. In other words if the "big wig" says "that's nothin" then "it's nothin".

You want to be conistent with these types of rules. You do not want one crew calling it a balk and another crew says "it's nothin"

This is similar to the no shoulder turn (check a runner) that at one time was a balk in FED. In some associations this was ignored completely meaning they went with the OBR interp.

I believe SC still uses the old appeal rule meaning there is not any appeal the umpires call the infraction.

In summary, if your association says "it's nothin" then call it that way.

Pete Booth

[lawump]

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;874380]

I believe SC still uses the old appeal rule meaning there is not any appeal the umpires call the infraction.

Yup...despite all of the lobbying I (and other umpires) have done with the SC High School League.