Tigers vs Yankees Blown call at 2B

[Adam]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Of course it mattered. It changed the game.

You're kidding, right?

[Rich]

The call was referred to in the headline in my morning paper.

Girardi spent a lot of time talking about it and how baseball "needs" expanded replay -- convenient for him that it left him less time to talk about his team managing 4 hits the entire game.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by Rich

The call was referred to in the headline in my morning paper.

Girardi spent a lot of time talking about it and how baseball "needs" expanded replay -- convenient for him that it left him less time to talk about his team managing 4 hits the entire game.

And one of the reporters said, (twice, I think), "But, Joe, your guys didn't score any runs."

Rita

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by Rita C

And one of the reporters said, (twice, I think), "But, Joe, your guys didn't score any runs."

Rita

Separate issue.

[Rita C]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Separate issue.

Maybe, but Joe was trying to link them and the reporter wasn't letting him.

Rita

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Adam

You're kidding, right?

Wrong.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

Wrong.

Then you must be mocking Joe Girardi. My bad.

[Kaliix]

All the other arguments aside, what just annoys me to no end about this "gross miss" is that Nelson is at fault for failing to be in better position. I've heard the angle versus distance argument enough to know that Jeff Nelson should ABSOLUTELY know better than to run directly at the play while trying to make that call on the move. Angle versus distance should be second nature to Nelson. There is just NO EXCUSE for him not adjust his movement to be perpendicular to the play and to come set when the ball reaches the base so he can make the call from a set position. That is basic umpiring 101.

That an umpire who is deemed good enough to merit a postseason assignment fails at this most basic application of umpiring principles is very disappointing and turns out to be fairly embarrassing when it results in a gross miss.

[jwwashburn]

I kind of thought that.

However, I have never been trained on 4 or 6 man mechanics.

So, am I right in assuming that he did not have any responsibility other than this?

If so, there is no reason on earth that he should have been running. Where was he when he started running, for goodness sakes? The ball was hit to the OUTFIELD. He should have been in a good position and adjusted if necessary. The running was a huge miss and that caused him to miss the call, probably.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Adam

Then you must be mocking Joe Girardi. My bad.

All missed calls affect the game. They might not affect the outcome. Yes, the Yankees still had a chance to get the third out without runs scoring. But, a 1-0 game with an inning that ends on a "high-energy" play is different from a 3-0 game where 4 pitchers (or whatever) were used to get the last out.

Originally Posted by jwwashburn

I kind of thought that.

However, I have never been trained on 4 or 6 man mechanics.

So, am I right in assuming that he did not have any responsibility other than this?

If so, there is no reason on earth that he should have been running. Where was he when he started running, for goodness sakes? The ball was hit to the OUTFIELD. He should have been in a good position and adjusted if necessary. The running was a huge miss and that caused him to miss the call, probably.

Here's what I posted on another board about this:
I agree on the "moving" part. But, why was he moving? Because he started the play (at the time of the throw) on the third base side of second. Why did he start there? Any play on R1 back into second would best be taken from (about) the baseline between first and second. So, move to / toward that spot as the ball is hit or when R1 rounds second.

If there's no play at second and a throw goes to third, and BR now tries for second, there's plenty of time to move.

Another possibility -- R1 tried the "show the hand and take it away" slide. I think maybe the umpire got caught up in watching that move and was expecting a tag attempt on the hand and then just missed the rest of the play.

Those are the lessons I am taking from the play, in an attempt to improve my umpiring.

[jwwashburn]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

But, why was he moving? Because he started the play (at the time of the throw) on the third base side of second.

Right, but shouldn't he have moved a lot earlier?

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Here's what I posted on another board about this:
I agree on the "moving" part. But, why was he moving? Because he started the play (at the time of the throw) on the third base side of second. Why did he start there?

Not disagreeing, but I didn't see that in the ESPN video (that was part of the SC piece on the play with Garciaparra).....is there any video out that showing that?
Stopping the ESPN video at 00:39 and again at 00:43 seems to have him more toward the first base side of second. of course it doesn't follow all of his movement in the play.

[Publius]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I agree on the "moving" part. But, why was he moving? Because he started the play (at the time of the throw) on the third base side of second.

The valid parts of the rest of your post notwithstanding, that is not what happened. Just watch the imedded video in APG's post. Freeze it at 3 seconds and you can see Nelson clearly in B. At 7 seconds he is directly between the mound and the bag on the grass at the cutout, about one step on the first base side of second--you can see space between the bag and the left side of his body. All he had to do was get set right where he was at the time of the throw and he would probably would have got the call right. Instead, he ran directly toward the bag in an attempt to get closer and made the call on the move, too close to the play.

[dash_riprock]

Positioning aside, had Jeff Nelson been stopped for the call, he would have seen a "probable" (very high% because Infante slid right over the glove) tag occurring well before the runner's hand touched the base. Unless Infante miraculously missed the glove, he's out by a mile. The touch of the base was a secondary action - a bang (pause) bang play. Even if you can't see the physical contact between runner and glove, it's a very easy call. And it appeared Nelson was signaling Infante beat the tag, not that Cano missed the tag.

Awful. I feel bad for Nelson. I can imagine how he feels, and the fact that the Yanks were shut out doesn't help.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by Adam

Then you must be mocking Joe Girardi. My bad.

Because of that call:

1. The Tigers got four outs and a free baserunner, which they turned into two extra runs.

2. Three extra batters came to the plate.

3. A pitching change was made. The removed pitcher had given up three hits, no walks and one (really unearned) run over eight innings.

4. The Tigers took the field in the bottom of the ninth with a three-run lead rather than a one-run lead. Do you think the pitching strategy might have changed a bit?

Would the Yanks have won the game had the call been correct? Probably not (especially with their pathetic bats). But to say it didn't matter is ridiculous. Ask Jeff Nelson if it mattered.