Legal Feint to first?

[jdmara]

I struggled with this last night and I'm still not sure if it's legal or not.

NFHS rules. R1. RHP. The pitcher would step backwards off the pitcher's plate with his pivot foot, his non-pivot foot would stay stationary, and he would turn his shoulders towards 1B. Sometimes his shoulders would turn after his foot landed behind the pitcher's plate and sometimes it would be nearly one motion.

Obviously by turning his shoulders after his pivot foot landed (behind the pitcher's plate) this would be a legal move. But is merely turning of the shoulders considered a feint (in other words, is this move illegal if he turns his shoulders before his pivot foot lands)?

Thanks

-Josh

[JR12]

Some Left handers are throwing to 1B as they step off. I wouldn't balk him.

[ozzy6900]

Once F1 steps off with the pivot foot, he is an infielder. It doesn't matter if his free foot is still on the rubber. Once he is an infielder, he can do as he wishes.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by jdmara

But is merely turning of the shoulders considered a feint (in other words, is this move illegal if he turns his shoulders before his pivot foot lands)?

Yes, that's illegal, but benefit of any doubt to the pitcher here.

This is a "technical" balk. If he jerks his shoulders around, beat, then steps off, I'd get it. But if it's at all defensible as "at the same time," then I'd allow it.

NFHS 6.1.1J states that turning, even jerking, the shoulders toward 1B is legal prior to coming set. After coming set, that would be a balk with runners on.

[jicecone]

Originally Posted by jr12

some left handers are throwing to 1b as they step off. I wouldn't balk him.

???????? Rhp ????????

[JR12]

Just saying LHP do it all the time and actually throw.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by JR12

Just saying LHP do it all the time and actually throw.

I've been seeing LHP do a kind of jump step this season. Hadn't seen that much before.

When both feet move, even if the pivot foot ends up behind the rubber, the free foot better gain both distance and direction toward the base. And he better throw if it's 1B. This is NOT legally disengaging.

[jdmara]

What has be confused about this move is that he didn't move his non-pivot foot at all. It just looked awkward and I couldn't decide if turning of the shoulders would in and of itself create a balk.

Thanks

-Josh

[RPatrino]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I've been seeing LHP do a kind of jump step this season. Hadn't seen that much before.

When both feet move, even if the pivot foot ends up behind the rubber, the free foot better gain both distance and direction toward the base. And he better throw if it's 1B. This is NOT legally disengaging.

Correct!! If this is done in one continuous motion and the ball is not thrown to 1st, it is a BALK! If the pitcher steps off the rubber with his pivot foot, and with the pivot foot planted, turns and fakes, then that is a legal feint.

In the OP, if the pitcher had come set, then stepped off the rubber, he can feint (by turning his shoulders) to first. He must drop his hands prior to re-engaging the rubber, in order to come set again.

[dileonardoja]

Originally Posted by jdmara

What has be confused about this move is that he didn't move his non-pivot foot at all. It just looked awkward and I couldn't decide if turning of the shoulders would in and of itself create a balk.

Thanks

-Josh

Have you ever seen a LHP properly disengage and just sling it over to 1B without stepping toward first? Perfectly legal and a pretty good move sometimes. Always keep in mind once he disengages he can legally do pretty much anything (and lets not take "anything" to literally) except reengage with out first breaking his hands