Shortstop throws warmup pitch

[RogersUmp]

In a 14U tournament yesterday (T4) the shortstop stopped at the mound picked up the ball and threw a pitch from the rubber. He then proceeded to take his spot at short. I called him back to the mound and explained that his warmup requires him to pitch to the first batter. Was I correct in applying Fed rule 3.1.2?

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by RogersUmp

In a 14U tournament yesterday (T4) the shortstop stopped at the mound picked up the ball and threw a pitch from the rubber. He then proceeded to take his spot at short. I called him back to the mound and explained that his warmup requires him to pitch to the first batter. Was I correct in applying Fed rule 3.1.2?

Yes - but maybe you should have been getting a drink or something and not seen it.

[Dave Reed]

No, in FED, he isn't a pitcher. 3-3-1:
..... Should there be no announcement of substitutions, a substitute has entered the game when the ball is live and:
a. a runner takes the place of a runner he has replaced,
b. a pitcher takes his place on the pitcher’s plate,
c. a fielder reaches the position usually occupied by the fielder he has
replaced, or
d. a batter takes his place in the batter’s box.

He's still the shortstop.

[RPatrino]

That further reinforces Rich's suggestion. Don't pick that bugger if you don't know the rule.

[DG]

Originally Posted by Dave Reed

No, in FED, he isn't a pitcher. 3-3-1:
..... Should there be no announcement of substitutions, a substitute has entered the game when the ball is live and:
a. a runner takes the place of a runner he has replaced,
b. a pitcher takes his place on the pitcher’s plate,
c. a fielder reaches the position usually occupied by the fielder he has
replaced, or
d. a batter takes his place in the batter’s box.

He's still the shortstop.

Read b. again and then Rich's response.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by DG

Read b. again and then Rich's response.

Read the bolded part about the ball being live. Warm-ups don't count for the substitution rule.

[DG]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Read the bolded part about the ball being live. Warm-ups don't count for the substitution rule.

A difference between FED and OBR in the substitution rule, but when did ball become dead?

The JEA discussion is that absent a mgr discussion the sub is in when the intention is obvious. FED does not have a JEA discussion, so when is it obvious, or will we allow 4 warmup pitches by someone, and then the pitcher take the 5th?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by DG

A difference between FED and OBR in the substitution rule, but when did ball become dead?

The ball becomes dead at the end of each half inning, when the defense can no longer put a player out (5-2-2).

I don't much care who takes the warmups. After 5, we're going with whoever's on the mound.

[lawump]

Originally Posted by mbyron

The ball becomes dead at the end of each half inning, when the defense can no longer put a player out (5-2-2).

Oh God, this sentence brings back painful memories of the 10-page thread (slight exaggeration) we had 5 years ago (or so) on whether or not the ball became dead between innings under OBR.

[RPatrino]

I was thinking that exact same thing!! What a thread that was.

[Eastshire]

The rule is 3-1-1 not 3-3-1. It's also not relevant as the shortstop is not a substitute under 2-36-1 as he is not eligible to replace another player in the lineup as he's already in the lineup. The relevant rule instead is 2-28-1:

"The pitcher is the player who is designated in the lineup as being responsible for delivering (pitching) the ball to the batter."

Ironically, there doesn't seem to be a proscribed method for changing the designation.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by lawump

Oh God, this sentence brings back painful memories of the 10-page thread (slight exaggeration) we had 5 years ago (or so) on whether or not the ball became dead between innings under OBR.

I know dat's right.

I think the ball would become officially dead when the defense has left the field, and no longer has the opportunity to appeal at the end of a half inning.

[RPatrino]

What I do, is as soon as all the defensive players have left the field, I loudly yell, "TIME".....

[briancurtin]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

What I do, is as soon as all the defensive players have left the field, I loudly yell, "TIME".....

Wayne and Garth had it right in Wayne's World: yell "game on" and "game off" any time their street hockey game was interrupted.

[DG]

After reviewing all posts, rules and the BRD it appears this is a difference between OBR/NCAA and FED. OBR does not make a live ball distinction, FED does. Original post was about a FED game.

Should make an interresting conversation if SS comes out and takes 5 warmup pitches and then defensive coach wants someone else to pitch, who should get 8, right, since ball was not live SS was just fooling around.