Illegal Slide?

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by Caesar's Ghost

FED and NCAA only:

R1. Grounder to short. Throws wildly to second. F4 defelcts the ball and it rolls toward the umpire's B position. After the ball is deflected, R1 slides to the inside of the base and (a) does or (b) does not make contact with F4.

Ruling?

You cite that the slide occurs after the fielder has booted the ball and it has rolled away. I have a hard time protecting a fielder if the slide is otherwise legal - i.e. in compliance with 2-32. The immediate act of making a play is over. The force play mention in 8-4-2 is moot since the ball was misplayed and the runner is legally sliding. You cannot have a force play without the ball. The runner may be guilty of MC depending on the contact though. You have to ask yourself, did he do it to prevent the fielder from recovering the ball and possibly making a play on the B/R? If so, enforce your FPSR. Based on what was in the OP, we probably have just a defensive mistake and a legal slide though.

The NCAA rule book has a great diagram showing where a runner can slide legally. I hope that the NFHS includes it in next year's update.

[Steven Tyler]

I don't think the FPSR is the proper call for the OP.

I would damn sure ring R1 up for an illegal slide since the throw came from F6, and R1 was sliding to the inside. In this situation, R1 should have been going straight to the base, or to the outfield side.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

I don't think the FPSR is the proper call for the OP.

I would damn sure ring R1 up for an illegal slide since the throw came from F6, and R1 was sliding to the inside. In this situation, R1 should have been going straight to the base, or to the outfield side.

If I don't have this right I'll get remedial training (RTFM). But, in calling FPSR INT at 2B, which would usually be called by the PU, you would see a slide not directly at 2B and not away from the fielder. You would not look at anything else and call the violation right away. Somewhere, FED says it wants this called even it doesn't disrupt the play or (I'm guessing here) there is not a play. It's a safety issue.
While I know this I have not always applied it. That's why the coaches play the odds.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by umpjim

If I don't have this right I'll get remedial training (RTFM). But, in calling FPSR INT at 2B, which would usually be called by the PU, you would see a slide not directly at 2B and not away from the fielder. You would not look at anything else and call the violation right away. Somewhere, FED says it wants this called even it doesn't disrupt the play or (I'm guessing here) there is not a play. It's a safety issue.
While I know this I have not always applied it. That's why the coaches play the odds.

Just like I told one coach when he ran out to discuss the call, I get, "Did he alter the play? Did he make contact?"

I replied, "No, but it's not because he didn't try his damnedest to! Would you rather he hurt somebody next time?"

It's probably one of the most misunderstood, and misapplied rules by players, coaches, and umpires. I've seen games where I definitely would have called it, not be called, and vice versa.

I simply tell them go straight at the base. Don't contact a fielder on the other side of the base. You don't have to slide, but if you don't, don't interfere with throw, and when you know you are out for sure, run away from the throw.

That's about as basic as you can get it without interference being called most of the time depending on the umpire.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Just like I told one coach when he ran out to discuss the call, I get, "Did he alter the play? Did he make contact?"

I replied, "No, but it's not because he didn't try his damnedest to! Would you rather he hurt somebody next time?"

It's probably one of the most misunderstood, and misapplied rules by players, coaches, and umpires. I've seen games where I definitely would have called it, not be called, and vice versa.

I simply tell them go straight at the base. Don't contact a fielder on the other side of the base. You don't have to slide, but if you don't, don't interfere with throw, and when you know you are out for sure, run away from the throw.

That's about as basic as you can get it without interference being called most of the time depending on the umpire.

Really? You said that?

In the OP, the runner did not interfere with the throw. The fielder deflected it - the play involves defensive error.

[umpjim]

The caseplay I cited states:

"R2 slides out of the base path in an attempt to prevent F4 from turning the double play."

So at the start of the slide if the runner's intent was to break up the double play by not sliding to the base but at the fielder you have a FPSR violation. You can deduce this attempt by where the fielder slides. That the fielder bobbled the ball or didn't make a throw shouldn't make any difference.

[MikeStrybel]

Originally Posted by umpjim

The caseplay I cited states:

"R2 slides out of the base path in an attempt to prevent F4 from turning the double play."

So at the start of the slide if the runner's intent was to break up the double play by not sliding to the base but at the fielder you have a FPSR violation. You can deduce this attempt by where the fielder slides. That the fielder bobbled the ball or didn't make a throw shouldn't make any difference.

Yes, that is why I have only referenced the rule book with regard to the OP.

For your reference, a misplayed ball does make a difference. While a fielder is protected normally, it can be argued that his error caused the runner to make contact. That very play occured during an NCAA Super Regional last year. The runner was not guilty of interference. The NCAA supported the call.

In Fed ruled ball, I urge you to consider the throw that pulls a fielder into the path of a runner. The defensive error caused the contact and we don't penalize the runner for it, right?

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Really? You said that?

In the OP, the runner did not interfere with the throw. The fielder deflected it - the play involves defensive error.

I'm not referring to the OP. In the OP, I would just have an illegal slide, and no FPSR.

My play was on 3-6-3 attempt at a DP when R1 went long and hard at the F6 as he came across the bag to outfield side. F6 was able to avoid the contact, but R1 had bad intent written all over his slide. I don't BS when it comes to player safety.