batter accidentally kicks foul ball

[David Emerling]

The batter hits a slow roller toward 1st base. The ball is barely in foul territory when the batter accidentally kicks the ball while running to 1st. It is unclear whether the ball would have remained foul. Ruling? (both FED and OBR)

[rbmartin]

OBR 6.05(i) Batter is out when....After hitting or bunting a foul ball, he intentionally deflects the course of the ball in any manner while running to first base. The ball is dead and no runners may advance;...

FED 7-4-1(i) Batter is out when ... he intentionally deflects a foul ball which has a chance of becoming fair.

accidentlly = foul ball

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by rbmartin

OBR 6.05(i) Batter is out when....After hitting or bunting a foul ball, he intentionally deflects the course of the ball in any manner while running to first base. The ball is dead and no runners may advance;...

FED 7-4-1(i) Batter is out when ... he intentionally deflects a foul ball which has a chance of becoming fair.

accidentlly = foul ball

I think that we should start thanking members for looking up rules for posters who can't be bothered to even try.

Thank you rbmartin

[David Emerling]

The reason I asked the question has much more to do with the interpretation of "accidentally" and "intentionally". I'm perfectly aware of these rules as written.

I have heard it said that a "kick" (even if running and even if it seems accidental) is always interpreted as "intentional" for the purpose of such rules that require intent.

[rbmartin]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

The reason I asked the question has much more to do with the interpretation of "accidentally" and "intentionally". I'm perfectly aware of these rules as written.

I have heard it said that a "kick" (even if running and even if it seems accidental) is always interpreted as "intentional" for the purpose of such rules that require intent.

I once kicked a chair leg while walking through the kitchen barefooted. It was not intentional. It still hurt though.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by David Emerling

The reason I asked the question has much more to do with the interpretation of "accidentally" and "intentionally". I'm perfectly aware of these rules as written.

I have heard it said that a "kick" (even if running and even if it seems accidental) is always interpreted as "intentional" for the purpose of such rules that require intent.

Right, so you know the rule (I knew you did, by the way) and the rest is your judgement. In your opinion, did the batter "kick" the ball (intentional) or did his foot contact the ball while he was running (he made no odd movement, he just ran and contacted the ball - therefore, unintentional).

[JR12]

This is why some people are afraid to post

[MikeStrybel]

I could have sworn this was an umpire forum where fellow officials could ask questions and kick around thoughts regarding their interps. Around this area, we strive to mentor those who ask. Sometimes we provide rule book answers and other times we simply listen and offer advice. Why is it that some feel compelled to ridicule others for simply asking a question in this forum?

The answer seems pretty straight forward and rb did a great job of hadnling it. Thanks for helping.

[JR12]

On almost every thread on this site, you can find at least 1 post meant to belittle or ridicule someone. Aren't we all on the same team?

[DG]

I think the original post said he accidentally kicked. I don't know why that needs additional questioning.

Thank you rbmartin, posting should have stopped there.

[SAump]

OP is different. Ball is fair, moving down 1st base line. Runner is running behind the slow roller and makes contact with the ball before the ball has passed a fielder. Foul within batter's box and out further up the baseline.

[JR12]

Accidently= Foul Ball

[bigjohn]

pretty simple answer here. If the batter meant to kick the ball he is out, if the umpire reads his mind and see that he did not mean to kick the ball it was purely an accidental kick, foul ball!

I always heard no official can read minds, but the rule expect you to!

[Welpe]

Judging intent does not necessarily include reading minds.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bigjohn

pretty simple answer here. If the batter meant to kick the ball he is out, if the umpire reads his mind and see that he did not mean to kick the ball it was purely an accidental kick, foul ball!

I always heard no official can read minds, but the rule expect you to!

I love how you try to use one sport about a word and bring it immediately to another sport on a totally unrelated issue. Someone kicking something that they are not in control of or is not in their hand is very easy to identify as compared to where someone is trying to throw something. As a basketball official we do this determination all the time. A baseball is a smaller object and if someone is trying to kick a baseball while moving and may or may not be in their way to see what they are trying to do to contact it or not. And it is not really likely that a baseball is going to be kicked on purpose in many situations as it would possibly put that player in jeopardy of being called out and for contacting a live ball and players tend to realize that fact. Usually a batter is going to try to avoid getting hit unless the ball is obviously foul is not only unlikely for that situation to take place, it would be very rare to even take place in a single game based on all the sets of circumstances that would be needed to even have a realistic scenario of someone intentionally kicking a ball. A player in another sport that performs an act that is seen 50 times or more in a game is a little different to determine what is done intentionally to something that might not happen in 50 games an umpire might work. Batter trying to kick a ball on purpose would stick out like a sour thumb compared with all the things we have to do in a baseball game.

Peace