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Old Sat May 12, 2012, 07:08pm
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TX HS pitch limits?

Spectator at best of three TX high school baseball south region playoff game. Visiting Team A wins game one 4-o Friday night. Visiting Team B wins game two 4-1 on Saturday. Team B decides to start game two winner for game 3. Pitcher threw 7 innings in the previous game 2. None in Friday game 1.

Controversy to begin top of 4th follows. Apparently, Coach for team A meets with the umpire and wants the team B starting pitcher removed from the game. Coach A states that TX UIL rules limit high school pitchers to ten innings in two consecutive games on one calendar day, the double header now played. The umpire, after lengthy delay, continues the game. Two outs into the inning, Coach A returns with a cell phone in his hand. After another lengthy delay and a phone call to Austin, the pitcher and the two outs are removed from the board. Anyone here know of this rule?

Team A scores one run after the previous two batters return to the plate for the second time that inning. Five outs sounds unfair? Score now 3-1, coach A now returns his starter from the previous night who is allowed to complete the game. Apparently, throwing more than ten innings on two consecutive days is still allowed by UIL rules.

The thing is no one around here has ever heard of this pitching limit placed on high school players. Last game of his senior year and he has been asked to rest, to save his arm, to prevent injury? Team B loses 5-4. Personally, UIL should overturn a game decided by a coach after watching a young man carve up his team for ten innings that day. Any comments about the rule limiting high school pitchers from throwing two complete games in one day during a three game playoff series.
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Last edited by SAump; Sat May 12, 2012 at 07:31pm.
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Old Sat May 12, 2012, 07:37pm
DG DG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAump View Post
Spectator at best of three TX high school baseball south region playoff game. Visiting Team A wins game one 4-o Friday night. Visiting Team B wins game two 4-1 on Saturday. Team B decides to start game two winner for game 3. Pitcher threw 7 innings in the previous game 2. None in Friday game 1.

Controversy to begin top of 4th follows. Apparently, Coach for team A meets with the umpire and wants the team B starting pitcher removed from the game. Coach A states that TX UIL rules limit high school pitchers to ten innings in two consecutive games on one calendar day, the double header now played. The umpire, after lengthy delay, continues the game. Two outs into the inning, Coach A returns with a cell phone in his hand. After another lengthy delay and a phone call to Austin, the pitcher and the two outs are removed from the board. Anyone here know of this rule?

Team A scores one run after the previous two batters return to the plate for the second time that inning. Five outs sounds unfair? Score now 3-1, coach A now returns his starter from the previous night who is allowed to complete the game. Apparently, throwing more than ten innings on two consecutive days is still allowed by UIL rules.

The thing is no one around here has ever heard of this pitching limit placed on high school players. Last game of his senior year and he has been asked to rest, to save his arm, to prevent injury? Team B loses 5-4. Personally, UIL should overturn a game decided by a coach after watching a young man carve up his team for ten innings that day. Any comments about the rule limiting high school pitchers from throwing two complete games in one day during a three game playoff series.
Quick Google finds this for Texas: "A pitcher may pitch one game each day in an unlimited number of innings. If he pitches in more than one game during a day, he will be limited to a total of ten innings each day." I did not Google up the penalty.

Around here, "No player may pitch more than 12 innings during any consecutive three-day period"

Last edited by DG; Sun May 13, 2012 at 03:28pm.
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Old Sat May 12, 2012, 08:57pm
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Here, the Head Coach is supposed to list the innings pitched on the back of the line up but alas, most times, they "forget". So in CT, the game goes on and the schools have to deal with the State Board (CIAC) and the decision is made at that level. We as umpires, do not have to deal with pitching limitations.

That said, I cannot remember a school being penalized because they have a pitcher throw too many innings. Almost all of the coaches keep a good handle on their numbers.
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Old Sat May 12, 2012, 09:53pm
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My chapter made us aware of this UIL restriction but the enforcement would not be ours. We don't have access to the pitching records (we are there for most DHs but we don't keep track of the pitchers). We were told to refer this to the district chair (regular season) if it was brought up.
The cell phone call probably saved a much worse mess and the ump who took it was probably clueless but made the right decision.
SAump you sound like a fan.

Very little pitching restrictions in TX but this one is correct. Once you cool down the micro tears set in and hard throwing after that causes more damage. I even hate to see a removed F1 sent to RF where the possibility of a hard throw from a cold used arm might be possible.

Last edited by umpjim; Sat May 12, 2012 at 10:01pm.
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Old Tue May 15, 2012, 08:05pm
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From 2011-2012 UIL Baseball Manual, Regular Season Regulations
Pitching Limitation
A pitcher may pitch one game each day in an unlimited number of innings. If he pitches in more than one game during a day, he will be limited to a total of ten innings each day. It is strongly recommended that a player who has pitched a full game the previous day not be used as a pitcher the following day.


Coach A complains to the playoff umpire that coach B has violated the ruling above for regular season games and asks the umpire to remove the pitcher for team B. However, Coach A allows his pitcher who pitched a full game the previous day to pitch 5 innings the next day. Coach B insists that no playoff round stipulation exists for the last game of the season. It's win or go home! The umpire was not made aware of the entire ruling above, only the first two lines.

Does the last sentence mean anything in this situation and would you rule pitcher B inelgible?
Please add any comment on Coach A's strategy which may help to influence your decision.
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Last edited by SAump; Tue May 15, 2012 at 08:32pm.
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Old Tue May 15, 2012, 09:49pm
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One is a limit, one is a strong recommendation. Both do not require umpires to do anything. It's up to UIL.
You still sound like a fan.
Although I believe I would have continued with the game and not taken a cell phone call. Then UIL could sort it out. Luckily, this ump took the call and probably saved a worse situation.

Last edited by umpjim; Tue May 15, 2012 at 09:53pm.
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Old Tue May 15, 2012, 11:20pm
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Are protests considered?

I'm curious as to why two outs were taken off the board. Could it be to avoid a protestable situation?

Otherwise, coach A should of let the kid finish the inning and protest the game. The ineligible player wasn't recognized until the phone call, so the game should have continued from that point.
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Old Wed May 16, 2012, 06:32am
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LL is more stringent.

Quite a few years ago I was U1 of a state regional match up. The big stud pitcher from team A apparently pitched to one batter (it was actually only one pitch too!) more than the limitations allowed. Team B's coach called time and came out to question it. Both coaches brought out their documentation, I used a cell phone somebody had (back then that was a rarity!) and called the state tournament director. I shared what was on the documentation sheets. He told me that I was forced to issue an immediate forfeit, entering the score of 7-0. Game over!
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Old Wed May 16, 2012, 06:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by umpjim View Post
One is a limit, one is a strong recommendation. Both do not require umpires to do anything. It's up to UIL.
You still sound like a fan.
Although I believe I would have continued with the game and not taken a cell phone call. Then UIL could sort it out. Luckily, this ump took the call and probably saved a worse situation.
I would especially not take a call that I did not initiate unless I was sure I could recognize the voice on the other end. It could have just as easily been the coach's brother as the UIL.
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Old Wed May 16, 2012, 08:07am
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Originally Posted by Eastshire View Post
I would especially not take a call that I did not initiate unless I was sure I could recognize the voice on the other end. It could have just as easily been the coach's brother as the UIL.
My thoughts exactly.
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Old Wed May 16, 2012, 10:45am
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Team B now has a protest that that rule does not pertain to postseason ("From 2011-2012 UIL Baseball Manual, Regular Season Regulations").

They might have a valid protest.
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Old Thu May 17, 2012, 10:44am
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No Protest allowed in Texas.
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Old Fri May 18, 2012, 06:49pm
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Awaiting UIL Response?

Johnson outlasts South San after drama-filled day - San Antonio Express-News

Note: See photo number four. Catcher claims tag play. See runners helmet. Bangor ruled safe.

South San sues to delay baseball playoffs - San Antonio Express-News

South San baseball lawsuit strikes out - San Antonio Express-News
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Last edited by SAump; Fri May 18, 2012 at 08:49pm.
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Old Fri May 18, 2012, 10:24pm
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Originally Posted by blueump View Post
LL is more stringent.

Quite a few years ago I was U1 of a state regional match up. The big stud pitcher from team A apparently pitched to one batter (it was actually only one pitch too!) more than the limitations allowed. Team B's coach called time and came out to question it. Both coaches brought out their documentation, I used a cell phone somebody had (back then that was a rarity!) and called the state tournament director. I shared what was on the documentation sheets. He told me that I was forced to issue an immediate forfeit, entering the score of 7-0. Game over!
Arre you trying to describe a LL situation here?
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Old Fri May 18, 2012, 10:51pm
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[QUOTE=SAump;842476]Johnson outlasts South San after drama-filled day - San Antonio Express-News

Note: See photo number four. Catcher claims tag play. See runners helmet. Bangor ruled safe.

Looks bad, get the photographer to provide the video or the previous frames from the thing the camera does when it just keeps on clicking. We need to see the ball in the glove too. If this was blown I would ask where the ump was positioned but the only explanation would be blocked by the batter or ducking to avoid the throwback, if it was blown.

Which one of the feuding SA associations called this? Or was it UIL selected?
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