what would you call?

[mandotheman]

Here is the situation...Jr high level...I was asked this from another umpire..

R3 is stealing on the pitch (sqeeze play)..the catcher takes position infront of the plate before the pitch crosses the plate ( never giving the batter a chance at the ball), R3 scores due to the catcher dropping the ball....what would you call...I already got different answers from other umpires...

[kylejt]

If the pitcher didn't step off before throwing home, that would be a catcher's balk.

[umpjim]

Originally Posted by mandotheman

Here is the situation...Jr high level...I was asked this from another umpire..

R3 is stealing on the pitch (sqeeze play)..the catcher takes position infront of the plate before the pitch crosses the plate ( never giving the batter a chance at the ball), R3 scores due to the catcher dropping the ball....what would you call...I already got different answers from other umpires...

Catcher's obstruction (FED), Batter to 1B, R3 scores.

[mandotheman]

I also have catchers balk as well....runner scores and the batter remains at bat...
You can say catchers obstuction, but then you would penalize the defense twice...runner scores and now the batter goes to 1st?

[dash_riprock]

No balk under HS rules.

[thumpferee]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Catcher's obstruction (FED), Batter to 1B, R3 scores.

Agree!

That's obstruction, and due to the fact R3 was stealing on the obstruction, score 1, batter gets 1.

In response to mandotheman, you are not penalizing the defense twice. The defense erred on a possible squeeze play. By not penalizing the obstruction on the possibilities of an offensive advantage, you actually penalize the offense.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by dash_riprock

No balk under HS rules.

Really, Gracie??

[umpjim]

Calling a balk because the catcher left the front of the box on this would be a stretch. The catcher can leave the box at TOP so more than likely he was in the box. CO is the correct rule to apply here.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

Really, Gracie??

8-1-1-e-1 plus the definition of squeeze

On CO only runners attempting to advance (inncluding on a squeeze) are advanced. Others only advance if forced.

[dash_riprock]

Originally Posted by umpjim

Calling a balk because the catcher left the front of the box on this would be a stretch. The catcher can leave the box at TOP so more than likely he was in the box. CO is the correct rule to apply here.

Except for FED, it's a balk because the rule says it's a balk.

[MD Longhorn]

Don't we have both? A "catcher's balk" and obstruction by the catcher?

[umpjim]

So if the catcher reaches across the plate and obstructs the batter on a squeeze you are going to call CO but if he steps on home plate in the same situation you are going to call a balk?
The criteria for that balk BTW allows the catcher out of the box right after time of pitch. This is not a balk most umpires look for. It could be called with catchers setting up for outside pitches, pitchouts and even catchers that extend one leg out to get lower but the TOP criteria usually is met in those sits.

[thumpferee]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Don't we have both? A "catcher's balk" and obstruction by the catcher?

So we move all runners up 1 and award BR 1st?

On a balk, only the runners are moved up. What about B2 who's opportunity for a hit (bunt single) was taken away?

Obstruction awards the stealing runner and batter a base and others if forced, which seems to be a more advantageous penalty for the defenses error.

I didn't think NFHS used the term "catcher's balk"? I don't have my book

[mbyron]

To those advocating for a balk here: the OP does not state that F2 left the box before F1 released the pitch.

Without more info in support of the balk, it sounds like garden-variety catcher INT/OBS to me.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Don't we have both? A "catcher's balk" and obstruction by the catcher?

If you have a balk the ball becomes immediately dead is the reason you can't have obstruction in FED. The play didn't happen. The batter doesn't go to first, all runners advance one base. Simple as that.