Asking for help from feloow umpire

[chris s]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by David B
[B]

Originally posted by Gre144
If a coach asks you to go to your partner go to your partner to make him happy. Just make sure,before the game starts, that your partner will go along with call that you make.

Greg

Greg,


Then simply make the call on your own, which you should have done to start with (with a few exceptions)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~
Lets see, you are 110% sure of your call and ask for help......DUH!!! Simply say NO...(insert any favored phrase here...

[Tom B]

Sorry, Gre144, gotta disagree with you. If I make a call, I'll stick by it. If I do go to my partner, I want what he has. The idea is still to get it right.

[Bfair]

Originally posted by CDcoach
I personally think it puts your partner in more of an akward situation if you wait until after the coach is complaining.
For example:
Last night I'm PU and my BU has a horrible angle on a play at third and pumps the kid out at third. Coach goes nuts cuase he is right over the play and knows his kid is safe. So after a while a parent yells ask for help and my BU immeadiately points at me...I give the kid safe because it is pretty obvious from my angle(however I almost just said I had a screened view just so that it didn't look like the coach had gotten to me with his whining). Satisfies one coach and the other goes nuts saying I'm too far away. This all could have been avoided if BU simply said "Did he make it to the bag in time?" I make the call it is the only call and they can't argue this 50/50 BS. I as PU prefer the asking me before you get into all sorts of trouble. That'll be one of the things I discuss with my new partners from here on out.

However I would also reccomend you are pretty sure your partner had a good view...and if you aren't positive make sure it is a private conversation.

[Edited by CDcoach on Jun 26th, 2003 at 02:57 PM]

If requesting help during playing action, the question and answer obviously need to be loud---thus public.

If requesting help after play has ended, both question and answer should always be private. Even if the partner yells the question, you can still approach him for private conversation regarding the answer The responsible official can then announce the decision.

If you ask for help on your call---publicly or privately---be willing to accept the decision of your partner. That is, once you bring him into the situation don't make him stick with your call if he thinks it crappy. If you do, you won't have anything to discuss beyond the first time.


Just my opinion,

Freix

[DownTownTonyBrown]

I guess I started the B versus C stuff... sorry

I do mostly FED. FED says position C. Personally I tend to line up in the C position and then move toward the pitcher's mound several steps. From position C as specified in the FED book, it is almost impossible to get a good look at a first base play - closer to the mound gives me a better look. Rarely do I make a call at 3rd, so 1st is important and we should stay in a position to see 1st.

Asking for help...
How can the BU see an out and then ask the PU 90 feet away for help and the PU says SAFE!? If the PU sees a safe, then the BU probably was guessing. I never ask my partner to make the final call. I ask specific questions like "Was a tag made? Was his foot on the base?" ... etc. then I give my call based upon that response. ALWAYS ASK THE QUESTION FIRST (gather your information) THEN GIVE YOUR CALL.

Don't shoot first then ask questions.

[Jerry]

Tony:
Rarely, if ever, would/should one umpire ask another one for his view/opinion . . . if they're each watching their areas of responsibility.

With no one on, there's no reason in God's green earth that the BU should ask the PU if there was a tag or if a foot was on a base. The PU is watching EVERYTHING except for that. (Excluding of course the possiblity that the BU was suffering a coronary at the time; or became instantaneously blinded by a lightning bolt from heaven.)

Now; if the BU does ask . . . you're in the awkward position of having to render a judgement based on what you may have seen; even if it wasn't your job to specifically watch it. How dumb is that? ("I don't know what he saw; I'm looking for overthrows and interference.")

With R1's and R3's, the scenario may be more difficult for the BU; but certainly not impossible. Same thing . . . PU should be watching something other than tags and missed bases at 1st.

Umps gotta learn to "call 'em as I see 'em".

Jerry

[rpnetter]

I am not a regular umpire but enjoy lurking on the board to learn more about the rules. I thought this would be an interesting book to acquire so I went looking for it as well. While the link posted earlier does direct you to a place where it could be ordered I also found this link:

http://macroweb.com/ibrules/

On this page you can generate a random quiz choosing the number of questions that you want, take the quiz, have it graded and then for each answer have an explanation of why the call was made including the rules reference.

I have taken a few quizzes at this point and it is nice to be able to "Blow The Call" without causing problems with Players/Managers/Fans. I also think that I will better retain the correct answer this way. I don't know if it would be of interest to anyone but thought that I would share.

[Lonewolf986]

1) Only ask for help if you REALLY need it. in any instance, stick to your guns! And careful, the FIRST time you get questioned, and they get thier way, then it'll set you up for disaster the next time around

2) Dont try to even it up!

3) You are the Ump, not them!

4) SELL THE CALL in the first place.

5) Call TIME if you feel you want to ask your partner, meet up with your partner, and act like you're "discussing"...then stick with your call. Sometimes coaches will just be happy with you "asking for help"

6) If you got it wrong, live with it, the only way you will improve is if you allow yourself to LEARN from the mistakes you made! Whether is be positioning, knowledge of the rules, or even the controversial strike zone!

[thumpferee]

I had posted a question before about changing a call. I had mixed reviews, so I thought I'd ask it again here since it came up. Here is my question.

If a call is reversed, who announces the call after their conference, the one who originally made the call, or the one changing the call?

[mick]

Originally posted by thumpferee
I had posted a question before about changing a call. I had mixed reviews, so I thought I'd ask it again here since it came up. Here is my question.

If a call is reversed, who announces the call after their conference, the one who originally made the call, or the one changing the call?

In polite company, ...

After a private discussion, the calling umpire may change a call.

After a very, visual point for help, the partner's call shall stand.
mick

[Lonewolf986]

I agree. Again, sometimes all the coaches want is the satisfaction of knowing the Umpire "listened" to thier pleas. Be careful though, some of them will tend to abuse this...

[David B]

Originally posted by Lonewolf986



4) SELL THE CALL in the first place.

Selling the call works but only if the umpire has gained the respect of the players and coaches. I work with young umpires that get chewed for calls that if I as a veteran make the same call no one says a word.


5) Call TIME if you feel you want to ask your partner, meet up with your partner, and act like you're "discussing"...then stick with your call. Sometimes coaches will just be happy with you "asking for help"

That's the dumbest thing I've read from an umpire in a long time. What do you mean "act like your discussing the call"???

I'm an umpire not an actor. If there is a question we WILL discuss the call and we will make the best interpretation based on the rules and then we will let the teams know what the result is.

Pretending on a baseball field will end up getting an umpire in huge trouble, and with a last name called "Smitty."

6) If you got it wrong, live with it, the only way you will improve is if you allow yourself to LEARN from the mistakes you made! A very good point you make!

Whether is be positioning, knowledge of the rules, or even the controversial strike zone!

and what's the controversial strike zone. Its a strike if I call it a strike. If I don't its a ball.

Now thats not very controversial is it?? (g)

Thanks
David