R1 passes R2

[STL_UMP]

OBR
Is this an immediate dead ball or delayed? And if there is an R3 does he go back?

[dash_riprock]

The runner who did the passing is out, the ball stays live ball, play on.

[Rich Ives]

What Dash Said

[STL_UMP]

Thanks!

[mbyron]

This is a base running infraction, not a kind of INT. So there's no basis for killing it or returning runners.

[Only a fan]

play regarding runners passing one another...R3 in a run down between third and home. R2 runs to second and is standing on third when they chase R3 back to third. As he gets to the base he trips over the base and now R3 is on the outfield side of third base with R2 standing on third...question...has R2 now passed R3 who is considered an unobstructed runner?

Looking for some help and rule reference

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Only a fan

play regarding runners passing one another...R3 in a run down between third and home. R2 runs to second and is standing on third when they chase R3 back to third. As he gets to the base he trips over the base and now R3 is on the outfield side of third base with R2 standing on third...question...has R2 now passed R3 who is considered an unobstructed runner?

Looking for some help and rule reference

No - I don't see ON 3B and the outfield side of 3B any differently wrt this rule. Player (to my mind) would have to fall toward 2nd (and 100% beyond R2 in that direction) to be passed.

That said, on the normally unused sides of the bases (OF side of 3B and/or dugout side of 3B, for example) is where you'll get the most argument on this rule.

[mbyron]

R2 hasn't passed anyone. He's standing on 3B.

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by Only a fan

play regarding runners passing one another...R3 in a run down between third and home. R2 runs to second and is standing on third when they chase R3 back to third. As he gets to the base he trips over the base and now R3 is on the outfield side of third base with R2 standing on third...question...has R2 now passed R3 who is considered an unobstructed runner?

Looking for some help and rule reference

What kind of help are you looking for?

D is [one hopes] getting an out here:
either R3 is getting tagged off the bag, or if they are both in contact, tag [the right] one
[hint - tag 'em both and the umpire will indicate which was the right one] and get the out.

Coach: stop whining for the cheap out on umpire action [to save you and your players from having to know what to do], and play ball and EARN it.

The only two ways I am calling an out here for how R3 ran bases is if R3 runs himself straight-line closer to 2d than R2, then I've got a "passing" out: but even in that sitch, more likely I've got an out if R3 runs [not falls, runs] more than 3 feet from a direct line between 3d & home TO AVOID A TAG.
IOW, if'n R3 "retreats" past 3dB more than 3' into the outfield getting away from a pickle, he's done/ out.

[kylejt]

Is there a clear cut definition of a pass?

Yeah, R2 maybe closer to second than R3, but he's also a lot closer to third (hell, he's standin' on it). So if he's closer to the nearest base, what say you now?

I'm just sayin', what's the point of reference for a pass? Is it a straight line from the point of the plate, though the front edge of the leading runner? Or something different.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Is there a clear cut definition of a pass?

Yeah, R2 maybe closer to second than R3, but he's also a lot closer to third (hell, he's standin' on it). So if he's closer to the nearest base, what say you now?

I'm just sayin', what's the point of reference for a pass? Is it a straight line from the point of the plate, though the front edge of the leading runner? Or something different.

Best definition I've ever heard was to not treat the path from batters box to plate as a circle, but a square (which is what it is!) When travelling from 1st base to 2nd base, for example, a player has not passed another unless you can draw a perpendicular line through the basepath that touches neither player, and the wrong runner is in front. Ditto between the other bases. This leaves you a 45 degree angle of no-man's land at each base - which almost NEVER comes into play, but would come into play in the OP. A player in this area is best treated as on the base - and is not passed unless the next runner passes that base. IOW, in the posted sitch, R2, being ON third base, has not passed R3 (or R3 has not passed R2 in reverse if it makes more sense to you), because R2 is running from 2nd to 3rd - the line mentioned earlier must be perpendicular to the 2B-3B baseline, and you must be able to draw it with R3 ENTIRELY behind R2 for there to be a passed runner.

[kylejt]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Best definition I've ever heard was to not treat the path from batters box to plate as a circle, but a square (which is what it is!) When travelling from 1st base to 2nd base, for example, a player has not passed another unless you can draw a perpendicular line through the basepath that touches neither player, and the wrong runner is in front. Ditto between the other bases. This leaves you a 45 degree angle of no-man's land at each base - which almost NEVER comes into play, but would come into play in the OP. A player in this area is best treated as on the base - and is not passed unless the next runner passes that base. IOW, in the posted sitch, R2, being ON third base, has not passed R3 (or R3 has not passed R2 in reverse if it makes more sense to you), because R2 is running from 2nd to 3rd - the line mentioned earlier must be perpendicular to the 2B-3B baseline, and you must be able to draw it with R3 ENTIRELY behind R2 for there to be a passed runner.

Fair enough.

So, can I use the perpendicular line through the third to home basepath? If so, R2 is out. R2 is standing on third, afterall.

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by kylejt

Fair enough.

So, can I use the perpendicular line through the third to home basepath? If so, R2 is out. R2 is standing on third, afterall.

Nope: the line in this case would be perpendicular to the 2d - 3d basepath and in BACK of R2. Unless R3 is closer to 2d base than R2, nobody's out, yet.

[thumpferee]

Couldn't we get him for running the bases in reverse order

[cbfoulds]

Originally Posted by thumpferee

Couldn't we get him for running the bases in reverse order

I HOPE you are being sarcastic/ not serious, so I'll keep the response flame-free: NO.