Balk Call

[tankmjg24]

So here is the situation. OBR Rules but I do not think it matters. Two man crew and I am the field umpire in C position with R2 and R3. RHP has a high leg kick and he picks off R3. From my angle he clearly crossed the plane of the rubber. I could see his foot go back and where it landed was well behind the extended line of the rubber.

Coach comes out to question balk. I explain that he crossed the plane of the rubber which commits him to pitch. His first argument is that this is not a balk and a legal move. I explain nicely to check his rules as it is illegal and reference the rule below.

Rule 8.05(a) Comment: If a lefthanded or righthanded pitcher swings his free foot past the back edge of the pitcher’s rubber, he is required to pitch to the batter except to throw to second base on a
pick-off play.

He then complains that there is no way I can see this from my angle.
I saw the conversation going nowhere so I replied that the call was a balk and not going to change and the conversation was over and the coach returned to the dugout.

Now here is where my true question comes into play. The coach complained to the head umpire of the association over the call. I have no clue how the conversation went. My boss in talking with me said that he was not going to get into discussing my judgement and that I was correct in the rule however he would have to agree with the coach in that this cannot be seen in a two man crew. According to him the only way you can see this is if you have a three man crew and U3 is in D position.

So what are everyone's opinions on this? To me this was an easy call due to the fact that I could see his foot go beyond his hip and then where it landed. Thoughts?

[MD Longhorn]

Where it landed doesn't help you (it HAS to land more toward 3rd than home - having it land slightly beyond 3rd doesn't make it illegal or give you a hint that it might have been illegal) - you can't draw any information from that.

Your assignor is partially right - it's VERY hard to see from C as opposed to D. However, that's actually a point in your favor. For you to see it from C, it would have to be blatant... the fact that you DID see the foot back too far tells me this was an elephant balk.

Said another way, the borderline balk to 3rd is almost impossible to see from C - the only balk (on this play) that you CAN see from C is a very blatant very obvious balk, which it sounds like this one must have been.

[mbyron]

You can see this, but it's relatively rare. You quoted the rule: F1's entire foot must go behind the back edge of the rubber for him to be committed to pitch to the batter. That's a lot of foot going a long way back.

The way I was trained to see this balk: look for the sole of his shoe. If you can see the entire sole, the foot likely went behind the rubber (try it for yourself). Otherwise, legal for a pickoff.

[Robert E. Harrison]

+1

Great advice!

[UmpJM]

Michael,

Originally Posted by mbyron

You can see this, but it's relatively rare. You quoted the rule: F1's entire foot must go behind the back edge of the rubber for him to be committed to pitch to the batter. That's a lot of foot going a long way back.

The way I was trained to see this balk: look for the sole of his shoe. If you can see the entire sole, the foot likely went behind the rubber (try it for yourself). Otherwise, legal for a pickoff.

In FED (and NCAA) it's the "entire foot" (or "any part of the stride leg" in NCAA). OBR, it's "any part" of the free foot.

The rest I concur with.

Hadn't heard the "sole of the foot" guideline before. I'll definitely give it a try.

JM

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by UmpJM (nee CoachJM)

Hadn't heard the "sole of the foot" guideline before. I'll definitely give it a try.

Sole of the shoe will be an easier guideline.

Taught to me at an endangered institution of higher umpiring.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

So here is the situation. OBR Rules but I do not think it matters. Two man crew and I am the field umpire in C position with R2 and R3. RHP has a high leg kick and he picks off R3. From my angle he clearly crossed the plane of the rubber. I could see his foot go back and where it landed was well behind the extended line of the rubber.

I think your mistake is a rule which governs how much leeway F1 has to swing his leg during delivery to where the free foot is landing. The only requirement for the landing of the free foot is distance and direction (to the base F1 is throwing to). The breaking of the back plane occurs when F1 raises the leg (free foot). If in doing this the entire foot breaks the back plane of the rubber, that would be a balk. The coach was right in arguing with you - hope you learned from this.

[David B]

I think the coach is right, you really can't tell that from your position. Even if its pretty blatant as far as the step.

Its much easier to argue with the offensive coach and say, "I can't really see that from my position," etc.,

As has been said, "don't go pickin boogers".

But, for him to call the head of the association is very poor - tells me a lot about the coach.

Thanks
David

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by David B

I think the coach is right, you really can't tell that from your position. Even if its pretty blatant as far as the step.

Its much easier to argue with the offensive coach and say, "I can't really see that from my position," etc.,

As has been said, "don't go pickin boogers".

But, for him to call the head of the association is very poor - tells me a lot about the coach.

Thanks
David

Try living in Ohio, where the coaches in all team sports rule the roost when it comes to choosing officials and umpires.

MTD, Sr.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Try living in Ohio, where the coaches in all team sports rule the roost when it comes to choosing officials and umpires.

MTD, Sr.

Eh, the soccer coaches in NW Ohio can't have that much pull or there are a few teams I'd never see.

[tankmjg24]

I do not know how to quote so I will just paste the portion I am looking at.

Ozzie wrote: The breaking of the back plane occurs when F1 raises the leg (free foot). If in doing this the entire foot breaks the back plane of the rubber, that would be a balk.

Maybe I was not too clear in my early post but from my vantage point this is exactly what he did. He picked his foot up, went back, then went to third.

I have not heard the sole of the foot one explanation (which is a good one that indicates a for sure balk I think), but I used the fact that I saw his foot clear his hip and then land behind the rubber.

I know that the foot can land behind the rubber as long as it does not initially pass it, however in my judgement it did.

Maybe I was right and maybe I was wrong. My main question is should this balk be called with a two man crew when the field umpire is in the B or C position?

[yawetag]

Originally Posted by tankmjg24

I do not know how to quote so I will just paste the portion I am looking at.

See that big "QUOTE" button at the bottom-right of the post? Click it.

[DG]

If the pitcher's foot was clearly past the rubber call a balk, as was done. It is not impossible to tell and if you don't call it the defensive team will continue to cheat the offense.

From behind the fence on 1b side during pre-season scrimmage I saw a LH batter clearly fail to check his swing, and argument ensued when PU would not ask his partner in A. I asked his partner after the half inning did he swing, and of course he said "oh yea, big time".

[SanDiegoSteve]

To the OP:

Seems to me that the head umpire threw you under the bus, then backed the bus over you. The "head umpire" in these parts would never tell a coach that the base umpire can't make that call in a two-man system. Never could happen. The fact is that the BU in B or C can make that call just fine and dandy, and for the boss to tell a coach otherwise is blasphemy.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by ozzy6900

I think your mistake is a rule which governs how much leeway F1 has to swing his leg during delivery to where the free foot is landing. The only requirement for the landing of the free foot is distance and direction (to the base F1 is throwing to). The breaking of the back plane occurs when F1 raises the leg (free foot). If in doing this the entire foot breaks the back plane of the rubber, that would be a balk. The coach was right in arguing with you - hope you learned from this.

So it doesn't matter where his free foot lands, just as long as the entire free foot doesn't come behind the rubber when he "raises" his leg? So the pitcher can step toward 2B (behind the rubber) and throw to third is essentially what you are saying, correct? Sounds like a failure to throw home to me.

Wouldn't the pitcher's leg have to be raised to step?