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Sun Jun 08, 2003, 06:35pm
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Federation rules...
Yesterday at a high school regional tournament, the championship game went 10 innings. The visiting team scored three runs in the top of the 10th. The home team loads the bases with two outs and with two strikes on the #9 hitter, he hits a ball over the right field fence. Absolute pandimonium breaks out....the runner on 3rd in his excitement misses the plate by two feet. The runner on 2nd touches the plate, the runner on first misses the plate by a foot or so. And to further complicate matters the histeric 3rd base coach runs up ahead of the batter and "slides" across the plate in a bit of a premature celebration. The coach of the defensive team dashes up to the plate umpire to appeal the missed base and the umpire saye "coach....the ball was over the fence....dead ball...therefore there can be no appeal. I'm outta here". When the losing coach called me today to explain the scenerio and vent his frustrations, I told him that according to his version of the whole thing, I think he got a raw deal. But, without actually being there, I hesitated to say much until I hear a couple more descriptions of the last inning. Bottom line....can anyone point out the FED rule that would cover this situation? 
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Sun Jun 08, 2003, 08:36pm
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Sun Jun 08, 2003, 08:46pm
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Yo, bob
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I'm gonna get Fed books soon. Thanks mick
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Sun Jun 08, 2003, 11:18pm
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something sounds funny here
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Also, what is a 3rd base coach doing sliding across the plate???? Don't think that would be happening if I was calling the game. If this is FED ball, the umpire was wrong. If he didn't want to stick around he should have been long gone before everyone got around to touching home. Thanks David
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Mon Jun 09, 2003, 04:48am
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Re: Hmmm,
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Seems likely that the game was in Michigan on June 7th, but I could find no games listed as 10 innings long in any of the 4 varsity divisions. mick
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Mon Jun 09, 2003, 07:31am
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Re: Yo, bob
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Mon Jun 09, 2003, 08:55am
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RULE 8 SECTION 2 TOUCHING, OCCUPYING AND RETURNING TO A BASE
ART. 1 . . . An advancing runner shall touch first, second, third and then home plate in order, including awarded bases. ART. 2 . . . A returning runner shall retouch the bases in reverse order. If the ball is dead because of an uncaught foul, it is not necessary for a returning runner to retouch intervening bases. The umpire will not make the ball alive until the runner returns to the appropriate base. ART. 3 . . . Any runner who misses a base while advancing may not return to touch it after a following runner has scored. NOTE: Any runner who misses the first base to which he is advancing and who is later called out shall be considered as having advanced one base. ART. 4 . . . If a fair or foul batted ball is caught, other than a foul tip, each base runner shall touch his base after the batted ball has touched a fielder. (See 8-4-1c for fielder intentionally dropping the ball and 8-4-2i for runner being put out.) ART. 5 . . . If a runner who misses any base, including home plate desires to return to touch the base, he must do so immediately. If the ball becomes dead and the runner is on or beyond a succeeding base, he cannot return to the missed base and, therefore, is declared out. PENALTY (Art. 1-5): For failure to touch a base (advancing or returning), or failure to tag up as soon as the ball is touched on a caught fly ball, the runner may be called out if an appeal is made by the defensive team. The defense may appeal during a live ball immediately following the play and before a pitch, legal or illegal. A live-ball appeal may be made by a coach or any defensive player with the ball in his possession by tagging the runner or touching the base that was missed or left too early. A dead-ball appeal may be made by a coach or any defensive player with or without the ball by verbally stating that the runner missed the base or left the base too soon. Appeals must be made (1) before the next legal or illegal pitch, (2) at the end of an inning, before the pitcher and all infielders have left fair territory, or (3) on the last play of the game, an appeal can be made until the umpires leave the field of play. NOTE: When a play, by its very nature is imminent and is obvious to the offense, defense, and umpire(s), no verbal appeal is necessary, e.g., runner attempting to retouch a base that was missed, or a failure to tag up and a throw has been made to that base or plate while a play is in progress. APPEAL PROCEDURES AND GUIDELINES 1. Types a. Missing a base b. Leaving a base on a caught fly ball before the ball is first touched. 2. Live Ball. In all games an appeal may be made during a live ball by any fielder in possession of the ball touching the base missed or left too soon on a caught fly ball, or by tagging the runner committing the violation if he is still on the playing field. 3. Dead Ball. The dead-ball appeal may be made: 1) Once all runners have completed their advancement and time has been called, a coach or any defensive player, with or without the ball, may make a verbal appeal on a runner missing a base or leaving a base too soon on a caught fly ball. The administering umpire should then make a decision on the play. 2) If the ball has gone out of play, runners must be given the opportunity to complete their base-running responsibilities before the dead-ball appeal can be made. 4. May Not Return. A runner may not return to touch a missed base or one left too soon on a caught fly ball if: a. he has reached a base beyond the base missed or left too soon and the ball becomes dead, b. he has left the field of play, or c. a following runner has scored. . Advance. Runners may advance during a live-ball appeal play. If a time out is requested for an appeal, the umpire should grant it, and runners may not advance until the ball becomes live again. 6. More Than One Appeal. Multiple appeals are permitted as long as they do not become a travesty of the game. 7. Awards. An appeal must be honored even if the base missed was before or after an award. 8. Tag-Ups. If a runner leaves a base too soon on a caught fly ball and returns in an attempt to retag, this is considered a time play and not a force out. If the appeal is the third out, all runs scored by runners in advance of the appealed runner and scored ahead of the legal appeal would count. 9. Fourth-Out Appeal. An appeal may be made after the third out as long as it is made properly and the resulting appeal is an apparent fourth out. 10. End of Game. If any situation arises which could lead to an appeal by the defense on the last play of the game, the appeal must be made while an umpire is still on the field of play. If a baserunning infraction is the third out, runs scored by the following runner(s) would not count. With two outs, if the base missed was the first to which the batter or runner was forced to advance, no runs would score. When a runner is legally returning after a long fly ball has been caught, he can be put out by being tagged with the ball by a defensive player or merely by the defensive player with the ball touching the base occupied by the runner at the time of the pitch.
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Mon Jun 09, 2003, 12:24pm
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The real story from the coaches
This reply is written by head coach R. Weber, and assistant coaches R. Thomsen and Z. Buchan, coaches of Maple City Glen Lake the losing team in this game. In the division 3 regional championship game played in Rogers City, MI. Glen Lake was the visiting team, in the top of the tenth inning a base hit scored 2 runners making the score 5-3 in favor of Glen Lake. In the bottom of the inning the bases were loaded for Rudyard High School. The batter for Rudyard with 2 outs and a 2 ball 2 strike count hits a homerun to left center. The third base coach falls over in astonishment, and the team goes crazy jumping up and down forming a circle around home plate yelling and cheering. The runner from third base comes in to home plate almost doing a skip in excitement along with the other players jumping around home plate, and the Glen Lake assistant coach points out to other coaches that the runner from third base missed home plate. The runner from second crosses home plate, and the coach now on his feet runs across home plate also. The players now circle around home plate and begin congratulating the runner on first by slapping hands and making other contact in fair territory before the runner crosses home plate. The batter is mobbed just before he touches home plate, and proceeded through the pile to touch home plate. As coaches we can appreciate the excitement, but the runner on third missed home plate, and all other runners touched home plate with out the runner on third touching home plate, this should be the third out, game over. Coaches R. Weber and Z. Buchan both came out to appeal to the umpire about the runner from third base missing home plate. The home plate umpire heard the appeal and went to confer with the base umpire. The base umpire told the home plate umpire that the game was over, then the homeplate umpire looked at both coaches and told them that the game was over and they were leaving with out any explanation. In our opinion the most important time of this game was to make sure all runners touched home plate, and that we were never offered an explanation besides that the game was over. Our concern is a rule violation in the appeal process regarding a dead ball, and again no explanation was ever made to us whether the runner on third touched home plate or not. We don't think the runner on third touched the plate, and the umpire never let us know if he did or did not. We believe we appealed the play in proper order and deserved an explanation.
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Mon Jun 09, 2003, 12:55pm
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Doesn't sound too good
Bob stated the correct rules by FED books.
Once baserunners have completed their responsibilities then the appeal should have been delt with. FED also adds that at the end of the game, the appeal must be made before the umpires leave the field. So from their reply it sounds like that's what the coaches did. However, with so much comotion, it also sound like it would have been very hard for the coaches to also see if the runner missed the bag or not. Bottom line is that if the umpire did not see him miss the base then he cannot make a call other than ballgame is over. However, for the umpires to just state "ballgame is over" would be a lot premature since runners do have to touch the bases to end the game. Thanks David
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Tue Jun 10, 2003, 05:57am
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Welcome to the minority
I agree with you completely. We see endless debates in this and other forums on the finer points of baseball rules, but when it comes to making the "tough" call (one like the scenario in this thread) so many seem to overlook the written rule and take the most expedient route. Baseball is a game of rules that are to be enforced by the game officials with as little "interpretation" as possible - otherwise what's the sense in having a rule book. Why not toss is out and call the game according to each UIC's personal agenda. It's the equivalent of basketball refs ignoring the "palmed" ball or the three and four steps before the shot in order to maintain "showtime". If the rule is there, enforce it!
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Tue Jun 10, 2003, 11:07am
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Tee
I believe that the rules provide officials with plenty of room for "judgement" calls. Nonetheless in this instance, it appears to be fairly cut-and-dried that runners missed bases, and the umpire(s) abdicated their responsibility in favor of a walk-off. If the violation occurred, the violation should have been called - not a question of judgement here.
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Tue Jun 10, 2003, 01:06pm
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Keep the players off the field, until the entire play is done.
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You know, it is a relevantly easy task to keep the players back from the baseline. For the base umpire to follow the BR all the way to home. For the plate umpire to keep the players back and to watch the runners touch their respective bases. In my humble opinion, the umpires screwed this up by allowing the players onto the field and not ensuring that all the required runners (to win the game) touch their bases. Yes, the runner has responsibility to touch all the bases too. The umpire however, can create the environment that makes it very obvious to the runner to fulfill his responsibility - "Touch them all" and to make it obvious to the other player to also allow this completion. The umpires created this confusion. If the umpires now reverse the homerun (Yes, they will catch a tremendous amount of flack, but) it is the "winning" team that will be penalized and not the umpires. I feel the umpires also have the responsibility to ensure the winning team complies with all the rules to confirm their victory. They need to watch the winning run score. Or as some of you have suggested is acceptable... the victory was confirmed when the homerun was hit; pack it up and get gone before trouble starts. I personally don't like this option - for obvious reasons. These umpires seemed to do neither option and stayed around to help celebrate. WRONG MOVE! Our job is a serious one ALL THE WAY THROUGH THE END. Control the game. And that includes the players and their access to the field. Spirit of fair play says let them have the win. Umpiring mechanics says ensure that there is no confusion so that they complete the base running requirements to earn the win. Either the umpires were confident that the bases were touched or they hosed it.... I'm thinking probably hosed but possibly both confident and hosed.
__________________
"There are no superstar calls. We don't root for certain teams. We don't cheat. But sometimes we just miss calls." - Joe Crawford
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