The Appeal

[clok_strix_3]

In the little league game today, there were two runners on base R2 and R3. A base hit was made allowing R3 to score safely and R2 to "score" but not touching home plate. Noticing this, the opposing side parents yelled at their coaches that R2 did not touch home plate. At this, the opposing team's coaches yelled at the offical the situation. Not knowing their rules, the coaches kept yelling and the offical walked over to their dugout and told them to Appeal the play.

I quickly objected and said that the umpire cannot tell the other team what to do but merely ask them what do they want to do. Unfortuneately I was ejected from the game for objecting what the umpire did.

Is this right? Can an umpire give advice or tell the team what to do in this situation? And should I have been ejected?


roger-----Pinto League Coach

[chris s]

lessee, Pinto ball,7-8's. Why are you even keeping score? We don't here, (my son is a second year Pinto). We don't have umps either. But, that's beside the point. The ump can tell them to "appeal it", he should NOT tell them how. As far as being ejected, you probabaly popped off in a rude manner and deserved it. A quick way to let you know that PINTO ball is an instructional league and you should act accordingly. JMHO

[clok_strix_3]

Chris S,

it is very unfortunate to hear that your Pinto League has no umpires to coordinate an offical game. How are these young baseball players ever supposed to know to officially play the game? If Shetland Leagues (T-ball) have umpires, why cannot Pinto Leagues! Here in TX, we have umpires for every league at every age. If you are coordinating games based on practice without any official play, that's quite sad. How are these 7-8yr olds supposed to adjust to umpires when they head into their older years. Your Leagues should invest in umpires at this level; it's to the young baseball players' benefit, not the coaches.

As for my ejection, all I said was "Hey blue, you can't tell them to appeal the call.....you need to ask them if they want to." And that's when I was ejected for "telling the umpire what to do".

It was to my understanding that all coaches were obligated to read the Pony League Baseball Rules not just guess what to do during a game. As for the offical, it was to my understanding that all umpires should not give such advice since all coaches should know what to do in any sitauation.

PLEASE RE-READ CHRIS

[chris s]

Originally posted by clok_strix_3
Chris S,

it is very unfortunate to hear that your Pinto League has no umpires to coordinate an offical game. How are these young baseball players ever supposed to know to officially play the game? If Shetland Leagues (T-ball) have umpires, why cannot Pinto Leagues! Here in TX, we have umpires for every league at every age. If you are coordinating games based on practice without any official play, that's quite sad. How are these 7-8yr olds supposed to adjust to umpires when they head into their older years. Your Leagues should invest in umpires at this level; it's to the young baseball players' benefit, not the coaches.

As for my ejection, all I said was "Hey blue, you can't tell them to appeal the call.....you need to ask them if they want to." And that's when I was ejected for "telling the umpire what to do".

It was to my understanding that all coaches were obligated to read the Pony League Baseball Rules not just guess what to do during a game. As for the offical, it was to my understanding that all umpires should not give such advice since all coaches should know what to do in any sitauation.

PLEASE RE-READ CHRIS

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First off, it is coach pitch. Base coaches call the safe/out....every parent is there, so they are kept honest. Heck, other teams coach called his own player out for the ball hitting R2 after the ball passed TWO fielders other than the pitcher! I even said he's not out! The PINTO ball my guys in kinda sucks, we moved to a different league this yeear cuz of boundrys. Last season,at 7, he used a hardball, this season back to the "incre-ball" (a softie). I believe now that ump was out of line for tossing you if that truly is all you said. I've told PONY coaches to "appeal if ya want". NOW, have you read the description of PINTO play in your book, page 6. "Teaches the basic fundamentals of baseball. Coach pitch reccomended" THAT, my friend is what it is all about. I wouldn't sweat this problem, heck, tell the other coach how to appeal this properly after the game. You are all there to help all the kids, right??

[Whowefoolin]

Obviously Chris S has a small itty bitty chip on his shoulder. But without going into his childhood...

...no the umpire should just keep quiet and observe the action. If the kid hears the parents and goes back to touch, then he is safe. If the catcher hears the parents, and touches the plate, runner is out.

The umpire should not get involved, just be alert and know what is going on.

Now the issue of having umps or coach-pitch or whatever is not the point in this thread.

Back to Pinto.

[chris s]

Originally posted by Whowefoolin
Obviously Chris S has a small itty bitty chip on his shoulder. But without going into his childhood...

...no the umpire should just keep quiet and observe the action. If the kid hears the parents and goes back to touch, then he is safe. If the catcher hears the parents, and touches the plate, runner is out.

The umpire should not get involved, just be alert and know what is going on.

Now the issue of having umps or coach-pitch or whatever is not the point in this thread.

Back to Pinto.

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Where ya get that? 7-8's is a TEACHING LEAGUE!!!! If ya hear parents/coaches *****ing bout runner missing a sack, do you not tell them, "appeal it"? OBVIOUSLY the players don't know what the F@@@ to do! TEACH THEM LATER and let this MBL game go.........

[BJ Moose]

I'm with Chris. I mean, if you want to try to TRAIN some teenager, you can stick him out there with a blue shirt to "umpire". But jeez... 2nd graders?? C'mon people.

What evil thoughtless soulless inhuman lout would call some poor 2nd grader OUT for missing home plate.

Hey look, let's pull the wings off butterflies...

Originally posted by chris s
lessee, Pinto ball,7-8's. Why are you even keeping score? We don't here, (my son is a second year Pinto). We don't have umps either.

[David B]

Having started umpiring in t-ball/pinto etc., I "did my time" and I don't think the umpire was wrong at all.

He simply told them they had to appeal the play, he wasn't going to call the runner out without a proper appeal.

I would tell them the same thing in all the other leagues also.

Coach says he missed home,
Ump says well appeal the play.
Coach says how do we do that?
Ump says you should know that.
Coach says can I have time?
Ump sure.

Coach goes out talks to the pitcher etc., and then they
try to appeal without the ball being in play etc, etc, etc,.

What a mess.

So I say, no the umpire was not wrong in telling them they need to appeal.

And if the coach persisted in such a manner as to get thrown out of the game, then shame on the coach.

When I was a young umpire (and didn't know all of the rules granted) one thing I could not stand was a grown man trying to tell me what to do. I did the best I could, and if the coaches didn't like it, they could get on the blue shirt and call games themselves.

Sure the kid missed the base, but what did the coach teach his kids by getting thrown out of a game.

Not worth it in any kids league.

Thanks
David

[chris s]

Originally posted by David B
Having started umpiring in t-ball/pinto etc., I "did my time" and I don't think the umpire was wrong at all.

He simply told them they had to appeal the play, he wasn't going to call the runner out without a proper appeal.

I would tell them the same thing in all the other leagues also.

Coach says he missed home,
Ump says well appeal the play.
Coach says how do we do that?
Ump says you should know that.
Coach says can I have time?
Ump sure.

Coach goes out talks to the pitcher etc., and then they
try to appeal without the ball being in play etc, etc, etc,.

What a mess.

So I say, no the umpire was not wrong in telling them they need to appeal.

And if the coach persisted in such a manner as to get thrown out of the game, then shame on the coach.

When I was a young umpire (and didn't know all of the rules granted) one thing I could not stand was a grown man trying to tell me what to do. I did the best I could, and if the coaches didn't like it, they could get on the blue shirt and call games themselves.

Sure the kid missed the base, but what did the coach teach his kids by getting thrown out of a game.

Not worth it in any kids league.

Thanks
David

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David , I like your style! )

[chris s]

Originally posted by BJ Moose
I'm with Chris. I mean, if you want to try to TRAIN some teenager, you can stick him out there with a blue shirt to "umpire". But jeez... 2nd graders?? C'mon people.

What evil thoughtless soulless inhuman lout would call some poor 2nd grader OUT for missing home plate.

Hey look, let's pull the wings off butterflies...

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Moose, you just gave me the best laugh I have had in weeks! Thank you!!!!!

[jicecone]

I had a nice long reply for this post but, my three year old just asked me to come out back so we could start working on his curve ball.

He just got drafted by the Yankees with a year supply of "Tastee Freeze" as a signing bonus. I appealed their decision and they threw in some Gumby "Bears". We finally signed. What pressure!!!!!!!!!

Oh by the way, when you get to real baseball, let the coaches figure out when their suppose to appeal. As an official your there to OFFICIATE.

[Hobo]

Having coached from T-ball all the way to the 16U level this year I feel compelled to toss in some hard learned "wisdom".


My son grew up playing Pony Baseball. The Pinto Divison is a divison designed to teach players the next step, which becomes "real" baseball at age 9. For this one reason, I think in THIS particular situation the situation could have been handled better by both the coach that got tossed AND the umpire, whether he was a youth ump or adult.

The coaches from both sides should have gotten together with the umpire and simply talked about the play so they ALL three came to the same decision...that being the fact that a player missed touching home plate. THEN the umpire should have taken the offending player aside and EXPLAINED to him that he MUST touch home plate in order to score.

At this point the player should have been allowed to touch home and score. The fact is, within an hour of the game ending NONE of the players cared at all whether they won or lost. Only the parents did. Best to teach the kid how to play the game and move on, then to teach the kids how to argue over something trivial 3 hours later.


Baseball Bum

[Bobbyg]

Hobo's right on the button.

I consider Pinto a learning league for everyone. Understanding all these rules, ( Pinto and Offial MLB ) is complicated enough for a baseball fan, never mind the parent who volunteers just because he doesn't want the league to eliminate a team.

That's me.

I've done my best but every once and in awhile an arcane rule arises and a player suffers due to my ignorance. It makes me feel about as bad as that poor kid who missed home base and caused his team to lose the game.

I believe a warning should be given when these instances occur.

If we take this approach we might have more parents volunteering to be coaches and umpires.

I say concentrate on calming down those cut-throat screaming parents before any other issue is addressed.

I'd love to know how many of you volunteered to umpire roger.

Just rememeber a kid never makes a mistake on purpose !

Bob