Balk or not

[Matt]

Originally Posted by justanotherblue

Just as the jump turn is more times than not a balk, that rarely gets called.

How do you figure?

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Matt

It wasn't a balk.

Originally Posted by Matt

How do you figure?

Yes. What is illegal about a jump turn as long as it gains ground toward the base?

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Yes. What is illegal about a jump turn as long as it gains ground toward the base?

It is considered a move from the rubber.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

It is considered a move from the rubber.

Which is legal, as long as there is ground gained toward the base to which the pitcher is feinting or throwing. Where else would the jump turn or jab step (both legal) originate, the moon?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by justanotherblue

J.M.

This picher clearly brings his leg up then half to three quarters down before he changes direction toward 2B. Absouletly a balk.

Coach JM (correctly) says "The INITIAL move does not commit him to pitch." By "initial move" he means the leg raise. You are now talking about lowering the leg. Since that lowering is not toward second, I agree that this prohibits him from throwing (or feinting) to second.

Originally Posted by clevbrown

Thanks guys for the feedback. I am learning a lot about balks this season and I appreciate your help.

An observation regarding the video, the announcer kept saying the balk was called because of the hesitation. I really thought the balk should have been because he did not step toward 2nd or home. Instead he stepped with his left foot about 6 inches from the rubber toward the 3rd base side. At that point he had not disengaged from the rubber with his pivot foot. So, I would call balk for not stepping toward ho e or 2nd. Would that make sense?

He balked multiple times. Award the runner home.

[justanotherblue]

Originally Posted by Matt

How do you figure?

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Yes. What is illegal about a jump turn as long as it gains ground toward the base?

Matt, as Steve said here, as long as he gains distance toward first, it's legal. Obviously, with a jump turn, F1 has the directional part of the rule covered. What you will see is the non-pivot foot often lands behind the pivot foot, away from the base, hence, not gaining distance nor direction, therefore a balk.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Coach JM (correctly) says "The INITIAL move does not commit him to pitch." By "initial move" he means the leg raise. You are now talking about lowering the leg. Since that lowering is not toward second, I agree that this prohibits him from throwing (or feinting) to second.

I agree Bob, it's not the raising of the leg, it's his downward motion that commits him to the pitch, again, it wasn't a direct step toward 2B. Sorry, J.M., if I mis-understood your post, I agree, it's not the initial movement.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by justanotherblue

Matt, as Steve said here, as long as he gains distance toward first, it's legal. Obviously, with a jump turn, F1 has the directional part of the rule covered. What you will see is the non-pivot foot often lands behind the pivot foot, away from the base, hence, not gaining distance nor direction, therefore a balk.

I'm having trouble understanding your worry. The free foot has to gain distance and direction toward 1B relative to where it was when F1 came set. I don't think you can do a jump turn toward 1B and fail to accomplish this.

The most common balk during a jump turn might be failing to throw to 1B.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I'm having trouble understanding your worry. The free foot has to gain distance and direction toward 1B relative to where it was when F1 came set. I don't think you can do a jump turn toward 1B and fail to accomplish this.

The most common balk during a jump turn might be failing to throw to 1B.

+1
I'm having trouble seeing how one might balk on this move short of simply falling over and tripping. You'd have to balk on purpose, almost.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Which is legal, as long as there is ground gained toward the base to which the pitcher is feinting or throwing. Where else would the jump turn or jab step (both legal) originate, the moon?

1. I don't think you even know what a jump turn is.

2. Who mentioned a jab step being the same as a jump turn.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I'm having trouble understanding your worry. The free foot has to gain distance and direction toward 1B relative to where it was when F1 came set. I don't think you can do a jump turn toward 1B and fail to accomplish this.

The most common balk during a jump turn might be failing to throw to 1B.

Finally, someone who gets it.................

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

1. I don't think you even know what a jump turn is.

2. Who mentioned a jab step being the same as a jump turn.

1. I'm quite certain Steve (and you) know what a jump turn is.

2. The jab step and the jump turn are similar in that neither is mentioned in the (OBR) rules book, but both are legal by interpretation, and subjest to the same rules.

3. If you point is that F1 must throw the ball, that has nothing to do with the jump turn itself being legal (or not, depending on how it's performed)

4. Both of you need to stop the sniping at each other. It would be best, imo, if you just ignored each other.

[justanotherblue]

Actually you might see one of three ways on a jump turn that the pitcher balks. As mentioned, he doesn't throw, he throws while still in the air, or as I mentioned, he fails to gain ground. It's not uncommon during a jump turn that the free foot will rotate around and land behind where the pivot foot was during his initial set. Hence, not gaining distance toward 1B and a balk. It's not one I generally look for however if a pitcher is using a jump turn exclusively, I tend to pay more attention to his feet position. I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut you'll see it this coming season.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by justanotherblue

It's not uncommon during a jump turn that the free foot will rotate around and land behind where the pivot foot was during his initial set. Hence, not gaining distance toward 1B and a balk. It's not one I generally look for however if a pitcher is using a jump turn exclusively, I tend to pay more attention to his feet position. I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut you'll see it this coming season.

1. I've never seen that balk. F1 would have to be jumping backwards, away from 1B. Makes no sense.

2. I won't ever see it. (8.05 COMMENT)