Astros/Cubs ending - Whose call?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by MikeStrybel

Admittedly this is a long time ago, but I heard Bruce Froemming explain to us that the base line is not the same as the plate when it comes to three dimensions. The ball in the photo shown is touching foul territory. The foul line is only considered to extend upward when judging a ball that is in air. This ball was foul according to what we were taught, it is in contact with foul territory.

I'm not douobting what you were taught, but it doesn't make sense to me.

If the ball was 30' farther out, it would hit third base -- fair ball. If it was 330' farther out and 30' higher, it would hit the foul pole -- home run. So, the ball in this play should be fair. That's how I was taught, and what makes sense to me.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I'm not douobting what you were taught, but it doesn't make sense to me.

If the ball was 30' farther out, it would hit third base -- fair ball. If it was 330' farther out and 30' higher, it would hit the foul pole -- home run. So, the ball in this play should be fair. That's how I was taught, and what makes sense to me.

Bob, that makes sense. However, consider a ball hit on a line 250 feet further that landed in the same proximity to the line without kicking up any chalk and bouncing away into foul ground. It might be better to call that one close but no cigar.

[TussAgee11]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Bob, that makes sense. However, consider a ball hit on a line 250 feet further that landed in the same proximity to the line without kicking up any chalk and bouncing away into foul ground. It might be better to call that one close but no cigar.

And this is why you aren't an umpire.

Bye bye now.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Bob, that makes sense. However, consider a ball hit on a line 250 feet further that landed in the same proximity to the line without kicking up any chalk and bouncing away into foul ground. It might be better to call that one close but no cigar.

Better by whose perception? Not by any umpire I know. PS - can't find "close" in the definition at all. It's fair or it's foul and the rule is VERY easy to understand.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Better by whose perception? Not by any umpire I know. PS - can't find "close" in the definition at all. It's fair or it's foul and the rule is VERY easy to understand.

Ortiz hit a ball near the Pesky pole today that was ruled foul. The replay seemed to show it hit about a foot and a half fair hitting the Scott sign. Just saying, if it hits near the foul line and doesn't kick up chalk, probably best to rely on that clue considering Estabrook might have missed it by 18 inches with all the clutter in the background.

ETA: another replay shows it might have just grazed off the fence to the foul side of the pole in that weird "hockey rink" right field. Strange play.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Ortiz hit a ball near the Pesky pole today that was ruled foul. The replay seemed to show it hit about a foot and a half fair hitting the Scott sign. Just saying, if it hits near the foul line and doesn't kick up chalk, probably best to rely on that clue considering Estabrook might have missed it by 18 inches with all the clutter in the background.

ETA: another replay shows it might have just grazed off the fence to the foul side of the pole in that weird "hockey rink" right field. Strange play.

Please just stay off the field.

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

please just stay off the field.

+100

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Bob, that makes sense. However, consider a ball hit on a line 250 feet further that landed in the same proximity to the line without kicking up any chalk and bouncing away into foul ground. It might be better to call that one close but no cigar.

Precisely this play happened in the Ray/Ranger game tonite. The ump had all but called it foul until he realized it had kicked up chalk.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Precisely this play happened in the Ray/Ranger game tonite. The ump had all but called it foul until he realized it had kicked up chalk.

So then, he didn't call it foul?

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

So then, he didn't call it foul?

Because it kicked up chalk. An inch to the left and it would not have. I really doubt he would have "seen the shadow" and called it fair.

[TussAgee11]

Boy Larry you really are reinventing umpiring as we know it with your every post.

I look forward to what obtuse and tangential wisdom you come up with next. Maybe it really would be best to join Twitter as another poster suggested. It would be great for all of us to get mobile updates on your umpire musings.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by TussAgee11

Boy Larry you really are reinventing umpiring as we know it with your every post.

I look forward to what obtuse and tangential wisdom you come up with next. Maybe it really would be best to join Twitter as another poster suggested. It would be great for all of us to get mobile updates on your umpire musings.

Please explain how my reasoning is obtuse or tangential. The puff of chalk is the only thing that allowed ULF to make the right call. What is rather obtuse and tangential is trying to parse what fraction of a baseball might be tangentially over the perpendicular plane of the foul line, absent the puff of chalk. Considering it is hard for a MLB PU to track the course of a dribbler 6 feet in front if him at T-Ball speed, I can't see how it is practical to try to call a tangential shadow on a ball going around 100 mph

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Because it kicked up chalk. An inch to the left and it would not have. I really doubt he would have "seen the shadow" and called it fair.

So the umpire made the correct call, and you want to create a fantasy in which he doesn't? Wow.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by MrUmpire

So the umpire made the correct call, and you want to create a fantasy in which he doesn't? Wow.

Hardly a fantasy - the LFU came within a synapse firing of completing the foul call he started to make.