Astros/Cubs ending - Whose call?

[Larry1953]

Bottom of 12th, one out, bases loaded. Cubs batter hits a slow chopper down the third base line. Astros F5 inexplicably tries to one hop it as it is going foul. He deflects it into fair ground - action about two-thirds of the way up the line. BU emphatically signals fair. The announcers (Cubs radio) say it is the PU call until it reaches the bag and the replay showed the Cubs caught a break.

Looking at the replay, PU was behind the plate, looking down the line but his view was blocked by the catcher and runner. My question is, how can the PU be responsible for both the anticipated banger at the plate and making the fair/foul call obstructed by the catcher and runner? Does the usual mechanic change when there is an R3?

[umpjim]

http://http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameda...b_1&mode=video

Looks like a fair ball that Jim Evans demonstrates at his clinics. From one angle you have daylight between FL and ball. Move overhead or inline and edge of ball is over the line.

[JJ]

Technically it's the plate umpire's call till it gets to the bag, but if he's blocked and the base guy has a good look, he can call it once he realizes the plate umpire isn't making a call.

JJ

[BigTex]

With the bases loaded, the plate umpire will give up fair/foul decisions outside the circle to the wing umpires so he can prepare for a possible play at the plate. This is an advanced 3- or 4-man mechanic.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by BigTex

With the bases loaded, the plate umpire will give up fair/foul decisions outside the circle to the wing umpires so he can prepare for a possible play at the plate. This is an advanced 3- or 4-man mechanic.

That makes sense. It seems it would be best to do it that way whenever there is a runner on third. The crew looked like they called it seamlessly with the BU immediately taking control of the call - like he should have.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by umpjim

http://http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameda...b_1&mode=video

Looks like a fair ball that Jim Evans demonstrates at his clinics. From one angle you have daylight between FL and ball. Move overhead or inline and edge of ball is over the line.

The best replay view seemed to show the ball barely landing foul and then it hopped up and deflected off the glove. It was an incredibly stupid play by F5 Russ Johnson - the only thing that would have made it "better" would have been if it closed out the first 100th loss in team history instead of just the 99th. You've got to make your share of plays like that to lose 100 games.

[umpjim]

The best replay did not have a straight line view of the play. U3 did and maybe the PU did. Whose call it was depends on the crew. It looks like the PU did not miss a beat in explaining the call to the manager. The edge of the ball was over the FL in my opinion. This was advanced because at my level U3 would not poach my call and I as PU might not have a clue. At least nobody killed the ball. You can always fix an improper fair signal but you have to take your lumps. In this case I believe it was fair.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by umpjim

The best replay did not have a straight line view of the play. U3 did and maybe the PU did. Whose call it was depends on the crew. It looks like the PU did not miss a beat in explaining the call to the manager. The edge of the ball was over the FL in my opinion. This was advanced because at my level U3 would not poach my call and I as PU might not have a clue. At least nobody killed the ball. You can always fix an improper fair signal but you have to take your lumps. In this case I believe it was fair.

I see your point - on further review. Indeed, the edge of the ball did appear to be over the line. Usually at the MLB level the fielder is trying to "field it fair" so he can make the out at the plate. In this case, a reasonably bright Little Leaguer would have had the presence of mind to let it roll foul.

[TussAgee11]

Impossible play to umpire. PU must take position for a collision play and is screened by oncoming R3. U3 gets to stare at F5's backside. Nobody has a great look.

Correct call. Sphere of the ball is hanging over line.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

The best replay view seemed to show the ball barely landing foul and then it hopped up and deflected off the glove. It was an incredibly stupid play by F5 Russ Johnson - the only thing that would have made it "better" would have been if it closed out the first 100th loss in team history instead of just the 99th. You've got to make your share of plays like that to lose 100 games.

Are you a Lastro fan?

Even the Pirates have left them in their dust.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by BigTex

With the bases loaded, the plate umpire will give up fair/foul decisions outside the circle to the wing umpires so he can prepare for a possible play at the plate. This is an advanced 3- or 4-man mechanic.

This is correct. It is used in the minors as well in addition to some other mechanics that are filtering to NCAA.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Are you a Lastro fan?

Even the Pirates have left them in their dust.

Must be nice to have a great ballclub to root for right in your home town!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Must be nice to have a great ballclub to root for right in your home town!

I thought we all agreed not to quote him. Now you've made me read his words - I've just lost 1 IQ point.

[Larry1953]

Originally Posted by Steven Tyler

Are you a Lastro fan?

Even the Pirates have left them in their dust.

Indeed I am. Dad took me to the second game played at Colt Stadium in 1962. That team was better than this one. It took 50 years, but we finally reached the century mark. And now they'll probably be moved to the AL. What a mess!

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by Larry1953

Indeed I am. Dad took me to the second game played at Colt Stadium in 1962. That team was better than this one. It took 50 years, but we finally reached the century mark. And now they'll probably be moved to the AL. What a mess!

Hows about we keep them in the NL Central and they can send the Brew Crew back to the AL. As a Cubs fan, I'd be alright with that............


Tim.